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Author Topic: walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS  (Read 2451 times)

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tanelorn

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walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« on: 24 Nov 2002, 21:02:50 »
Hey all, you've read the title, now read the post. I have been experimenting with making KBOTS, those 2-4 legged war machines from Total Annihilation.

I've had mixed success.

What has been holding me up you may be asking... well I'll tell you. It's not the modeling, it's not the config file, it's not the scripts... I think it's the engine itself. We are creating walking animations with clever use of custom animations. This is the general process:

1. Axis points are set to every joint on the leg, named selections are set up for the different parts to be animated.

2. In the config file, we define these animations, and create several animations according to how the legs are supposed to move.

3. Finally, we have a script run for the unit that detects when it is moving, and animates the legs accordingly.

Here are some screenshots of how we set up the model with named selections.

http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_hip.jpg
http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_shin.jpg
http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_foot.jpg

And here are screens of the memory points. You will see that we have named selections in memory that mirrors that in
the resolution LODs, so that the memory axis move with the animations, ensuring that things turn where they are supposed to.

http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_hip_m.jpg
http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_hip_m_ax.jpg
http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/o2_shin_m_etc.jpg


In a bulldozer demonstration, let me show you how it is SUPPOSED to work:

1. The entire leg is elevated using three custom animations. Each animation takes the hip, shin, or foot and rotates it 90 degrees using the hip axis.

http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/bdz_1.jpg

2. Then, the shin and the foot are rotated back using two other custom animations who use the shin axis.

http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/bdz_2.jpg

At this point, the leg is fully extended while the shin and foot are facing the ground. As a follow through, the animations are reversed to bring the leg back to it's initial position.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work in OFP. When these animations are run in the scripts, we see the hip, the shin, and the foot all operating independently. When I try to take a screenshot in OFP, I end up getting my desktop or a black screen. So I must show you what is happening using bulldozer screenshots:

http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/bdz_3.jpg
http://ta.opflash.org/loading_dock/forum_screens/bdz_4.jpg

As you can see, the hip rotates, but it does not pull the shin or the foot with it. Even though there are animations that specifically tell those sections to rotate along the hip axis, they refuse.

The problem: You can not define two different custom animations for the same named selection. When I remove the animations that tell the shin and the foot to use their own axis, the entire leg is able to move again. It seems that custom animations compete for control over a named selection.

I have also tried having the hip contain all sections in the model, the shin containing itself and the foot, and the foot defined by itself. This also fails, making the hip swing forward leaving the shin and the foot behind.

So what are your thoughts folks? Can we make KBOTS, MECHS, etc. with some more work and tweaking? The possibility is there, it's just that the animations conflict with eachother. If we can figure this out, it will be revolutionary.

STO_blackbird

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #1 on: 24 Nov 2002, 21:14:26 »
thought this forum was for realistic addons.  nice models but i am sure the topic will be locked by a moderator or admin in short order

Drewb99

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #2 on: 25 Nov 2002, 01:18:16 »
It's still something that involves editing in general-  If it works, you could use this to theoratically make horses and the like :)

tanelorn

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #3 on: 25 Nov 2002, 02:34:44 »
thats right so please dont lock it there are uses far beyond mechs for these kind of animations.

Coporal_Punishment

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #4 on: 25 Nov 2002, 06:43:25 »
also good for animals ;)

Offline Jonno

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #5 on: 25 Nov 2002, 14:07:30 »
this thread is purely editing related though, therefore shouldnt get locked, as tanelorn said there would be more uses for this, so it would seem a waste to lock it.
7 P's, Proper Planning And Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance

MadAussie

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #6 on: 09 Dec 2002, 03:48:41 »
Gday...
I agree...great idea...this would be great for arabs on horseback as previously stated..and far more..
I am trying to make futuristic cyber-soldiers with O2 so this would be welcome...as i already have a martian style landscape made in wrpedit..
Keep us posted on the work..
BTW colonel klink is working with animations now..hes good so ask him about your problem....
MadAussie out...

MadAussie

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #7 on: 09 Dec 2002, 03:57:39 »
And i forgot..
OFP has an excellent engine...broad scope...why not take advantage of that and make as many uses from it as possible?? With animation editing, model editing, scripting, wrpediting, and new breakthroughs coming out more often it would be silly not to take advantage of it and extend the life of an already excellent product..
ive had OFP for over a year and the interest hasnt yet dwindled...
MadAussie out.....

BlinkDog

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #8 on: 11 Dec 2002, 16:12:11 »
We got into a similar discussion over at the MMGN forum about a topic similar to this. We were discussing Heavy Gear gears which are smaller and more human moving than Battle tech mechs. A suggestion was made to just scale up the human skeleton for the gears. I have little experience in using 3d progs, I find I have a hard time manipulating things in 3d so I stick to the hex editing method for re texturing. I have no idea if this would work, any thoughts?

1B1KSniper

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Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #9 on: 12 Dec 2002, 09:14:06 »
That would only work for items that move similarly to humans...  So just about everything else that walks would be excluded, including mechs and (in my mod's case) AT-AT's and AT-PT's...
If you ever do solve this problem it would be absolutely awesome...

Shrike

  • Guest
Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #10 on: 13 Dec 2002, 06:36:22 »
This is amazing, tanelorn. I have been working on a BattleTech mod, but the main thing i have had trouble with is animations also, but it looks like this might eventually work! Keep up the good job!

1B1KSniper

  • Guest
Re:walkers / MECHS partially working. READ THIS
« Reply #11 on: 24 Dec 2002, 07:40:39 »
hehehe...  http://www.aef-kampagne.de/english/feat_XAnim.htm  Have a look at that link there...  That should help quite a bit...