Mando Bombs and Mando Air Support (ACCEPTED)

[Mandoble]

Anti-radar missiles are passive, so the SAM site cannot detect them by their emissions (what would mean a radar lock warning). On the other hand, anti-missile capability is there really to intercept cruise missiles, SSMs or similar, not something the size of a HARM. Of course you can make the anti-radar missiles detectable by sams or mando guns, but that scenary would be way unreallistic.

[Luke]

I see...

Are they passive by realism's standards (which they are) or are they passive by MandoMissile standards?

If the latter is not true, but just engineered to be realistic then feasibly could there not be some know about factor, so they possibly could be scripted to shut down?

I do see what you mean; also, as taking out a radar site would not directly benefit ground troops but just air units, so the ground might use an AT4 against it.

Also would it be possible to have a sam "site," like seven single-shot Sa-2s sitting around and being controlled by a single radar station in the middle?
Just a thought.

Thankyoumuch for your replies, as always.

Luke

[Luke]

This replenish aircrafts for bomb runs and CAS for west and east players
Consider this just an example, you may replenish this way also anyother existing counter per side.

Code: [Select]

// init.sqf

// whatever here


[]spawn
{
   while {true} do
   {
      if (side player == west) then
      {
         if (mando_support_left_WEST < 1) then
         {
            mando_support_left_WEST = 8;
            publicVariable "mando_support_left_WEST";
         };
      };

      if (side player == east) then
      {
         if (mando_support_left_EAST < 1) then
         {
            mando_support_left_EAST = 8;
            publicVariable "mando_support_left_EAST";
         };
      };

      Sleep 5;
   };
};


Mando,

I know that this is old and probably solved but couldn't you also do:

Code: [Select]

            {
               if (alive vehicle _x) then
               {
                  deleteVehicle vehicle _x;
               };
            } forEach units _group;

            {
               if (alive _x) then
               {
                  deleteVehicle _x;
         if (side player == west) then
         {
            mando_support_left_la_WEST = mando_support_left_la_WEST + 1;
            publicVariable "mando_support_left_la_WEST";
         }
         else
         {
            if (side player == east) then
            {
               mando_support_left_la_EAST = mando_support_left_la_EAST + 1;
               publicVariable "mando_support_left_la_EAST";
            }
            else
            {
               if (side player == resistance) then
               {
                  mando_support_left_la_GUER = mando_support_left_la_GUER + 1;
                  publicVariable "mando_support_left_la_GUER";
               }
               else
               {
                  mando_support_left_la_CIV = mando_support_left_la_CIV + 1;
                  publicVariable "mando_support_left_la_CIV";
               };
            };
         };
             
               };
            } forEach units _group;

            deleteGroup _group;
         };
      };
   };

I used laser strikes here, but anyway wouldnt this replace the strikes based on the # of assets that returned alive??

Just a thought.
Luke

[Mandoble]

If you want to use that criteria then you need to modify the console script to replenish available aircrafts from inside only if they survived the mission. In normal circumstances this should not matter, as a returning aircrafts would need to "land" somewhere and be rearmed and refueled there, so the "still alive" aircraft would be ready for another mission in an hour or more.

[Mandoble]

Are they passive by realism's standards (which they are) or are they passive by MandoMissile standards?

By realism standards they "should" be passive, with Mando Missile you may make them active an alarm the targetted unit, you may make them also detectable and interceptable. But in both cases it would render anti-radar missions almost useless.

Also would it be possible to have a sam "site," like seven single-shot Sa-2s sitting around and being controlled by a single radar station in the middle?

This is the concept behind mando missile command. Here in action controlling three launchers, in the example mobile launchers and mobile MMC (Do no confuse mando missile command with mando missile control center). In Mando Target demo mission you have a mando missile command OPFOR sided (a BMP2) controlling the Shilkas (SAM launchers).

Remember that with mando missile you may also create your own launchers with the detection, interface and firing criteria you want to use.

[Luke]

By realism standards they "should" be passive, with Mando Missile you may make them active an alarm the targetted unit, you may make them also detectable and interceptable.

So Mando,

By using this data, and maybe a range to target variable w/ a reaction time, could it be possible to simulate the crew reacting to 'seeing' the missile and turning off its radar?

(i.e. computer thinks "I've been locked on by a HARM, and once the missile is closer than 2500m, (random 'x') + ('y'/(K * skill scalar)) seconds after, I will deactivate my radar.")

So that 'y' is the minimum time, maybe .5-.9 seconds and 'y' is a constant divided by the product of 'K' multiplied by the skill scalar coefficient.

In plain english, they cant shut off in less time than the 'x' and the more skilled they are, the quicker they can react by deactivating the radar, thus simulating the crew's reaction time.

Just a thought.
Thanx for your feedback and all your insight, Mandoble.

Luke

[Mandoble]

Yes, it might be done, but the crew and the launcher would be dead anyway. Just lets suppose the missile is moving at 800 m/s and the missile is already aiming to the radar source. If you "see" the missile, shuttingdown the radar is not enough as the missile is already aproaching to your position, you would need to move at least 10m away of your position, but to move 10m away you need 4 seconds or more and in 4 seconds the missile would have travel 3200m, so you would need to detect it visually before the missile is closer than 3.2Km. But using a MMC a player has a long range radar and is able to detect incoming enemy planes while controlling also SAM launchers several kilometers away of the MMC. With that long range radar the MMC operator may have the SAMs radar turned off and when the bandints are really inside the range of one of the SAMs, the operator may order it to turn on its own radar. In this case the affected SAM unit would have the enemy already in range so the SAM would be who attack first.

[Luke]

Mando,

So can there be some way, some gamble that the computer should take to turn off leave on active radar?

Maybe like:

Code: [Select]

_sam=_this select 0
_percent=_this select 1
_minpercent=1-_this select 2
_risk=_this select 3
_outerrange=_this select 4
_gamble= random (1-_minpercent) + _minpercent
_dir=random 360
_dist=8+(random 10)
_sampos=getpos _sam
? _gamble > than risk: radar=false
? _gamble < than risk: radar=true

@target w/in missile range
~2
?! radar:radar=true
firemissile
#check
?HARMlock: goto "lock"
goto "check"
@HARM distance sam == presetrange
~((random 'x') + 'y'/(5 * getskill _sam)
radar=false
_sam do move [_sampos select 0 + (_dist * cos _dir), _sampos select 1 + (_dist * sin _dir)]
@HARM nolock
~8
radar=true
exit

Would that perform the function? (I know some of the script is not script-lingo, but the idea).

Sorry for always talking in '.sqs'.

Any and all feedback and consideration is helpful.

Thanxs for the responses, as always.

Luke

[Mandoble]

Yes, you can do dat. In fact AI will turn off their radars as soon as they switch to BLUE combat mode (or executing a script to turn its radar off). But it is a bit more tricky that that, I mean, it is not that you want to save that unit turning off its radar, is that what you want is to destroy the anti-radar plane too.

What does that mean in a mission:
- You have a long range radar far away in your territory, over a high hill. This radar is unable to lock on targets, but it is able to detect them (the MMC vehicle).
- Now you know where are your active SAMs, and where are the bandits, so when a bandit is inside the range of one of your SAM units, but it is not heading towards this unit, you may order it to turn its radar on, lock on the bogey and fire a missile, and few seconds later turn its radar off again.

And before you ask, this procedure can be scripted for the AI without the existance of a MMC unit, but the problem is that the enemy is no stupid, more than problably the first planes getting into the long range radar area are not the anti-radar ones, so, what should you (the enemy) do?

[Luke]

And before you ask, this procedure can be scripted for the AI without the existance of a MMC unit, but the problem is that the enemy is no stupid, more than problably the first planes getting into the long range radar area are not the anti-radar ones, so, what should you (the enemy) do?

Mando,

Based on the gamble and risk values,

The radar will either be off, or will be on depending on the random component.

Maybe add code to wait the 8 seconds, check if in range inner range, if not turn back on, or if in outer (Harm) range, based on know about and skill level variables, radars stay off/ dumb units turn radar on and die. 

Just wondering if that can fix the AI balance issue.

Any and all responses welcome.

Thanx for the feedback as always.

Luke

[Mandoble]

All in all, you can do all of that an even more. Anyway all these are matter of mando missile and not related with mando bombs. Note that mando missile provides you a framework to implement all your ideas, while I still think these will: a - render anti-radar missions useless (if you provide detection and anti-missile capability against anti-radar missiles) or b - render sam sites useless.

Notice also that if a radar-site has been targeted by an anti-radar unit, it is already too late for him even if it turns off its radar.

[Luke]

Mando,

So what if the detection range was 7500 meters, they react between .5-4.5 seconds and move in random direction 20 meters, wait _x seconds and turn on again?

Thanx for the replies.

Please keep sending them, as always.

Luke

[Mandoble]

Well, you may try, but that will not save the SAMs from the anti-radar missiles. The SAM vehicles will start engine, move a bit and stop, all in all in these 5 seconds they will still stay quite close to the initial position.

[monty67t]

I'm trying to add the action for the air support console to an object. For me, the best object to add this to is going to be the laser designator. I got it to work on the NWD modified laser designator/rangefinder. I added the mando_bombs scripts to the addon and added the addAction to one of the scripts which already had some additional actions in it for working the rangefinder. However, for some reason I couldn't get the laser designator part of the addon to work properly, I believe it was totally unrelated to adding the mando_bombs to it because I tested the addon without modifying it and the laser still didn't work. So can someone either create for me or tell me how to create a modified version of the default BIS laser designator with the added action necessary to access the air support console. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Monty

[Mandoble]

Not sure why you need to modify the laser designator object itself, you may just do the following:

Code: [Select]

// Add somewhere to your init.sqf
[] spawn
{
  private["_acidx1", "_acidx2", "_unit", "_veh"];
  _acidx1 = -1;
  _acidx2 = -1;
  while {true} do
  {
     waitUntil {("Laserdesignator" in weapons player) && (alive player)};
     _acidx1 = player addAction ["Console: Air support", "mando_bombs\mando_airsupportdlg.sqf"];
     while {("Laserdesignator" in weapons player) && (alive player)} do
     {
        _unit = player;
        if (vehicle _unit != _unit) then
        {
           _veh = vehicle _unit;
           _acidx2 = vehicle _unit addAction ["Console: Air support", "mando_bombs\mando_airsupportdlg.sqf"];                 
           waitUntil {(vehicle _unit == _unit) || (!alive _unit)};
           _veh removeAction _acidx2;
        };
        Sleep 1;
     };
     _unit removeAction _acidx1;
  };
};

So, as long as the player has a laser designator, he will be able to access the console.