(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[THobson]

Gee you guys hit me with all this first thing Monday morning.

PTnbrvieira:
Thanks for tip about using fraps.  It works for me.

Glad you are enjoying it.

Yes we went to the Algarve on holiday a few years ago.  We nearly got blown of the cliffs.  The sardines were wonderful

Everybody is keen to know: What are your four?

Mikero:

I must admit to a sense of humour failure today


good, you've made my day.

You are so kind.

Sergei as you know is 'red'. Would it be possible to use a GCivilianFakeE to get round this? Or, do you like the thematic, the making player aware stuff, that he's got a mixed bag.

I had not given this any thought.  But now you mention it, I think I do prefer to keep it as it is.

I can drive all over the island and kill as many loons that suit me with the police jeep, they never respond. Big bad trouble however if the Vulcan or a Tank spot me. My road-kills are unceremoniously stopped

This also applies to the civi truck as well.  This is a pain in the butt.

Confusion with changing ammo contents

I think I will make the contents change totally extreme, a player capable of getting that far and wanting to go further (ie not your Sunday driver types) should figure it out.  The thing I though might create too much confusion would be to have some soldiers come and investigate if the player steals too much ‘stuff'.  The thing against this is that the player could start a war without knowing what they are doing.  I might make it that destruction of the ammo crates would generate such a response.  The player would then need to think about what they are doing.  Keep collecting the goodies - or blow the stuff up and get them fighting.

Also I am doing all I can (until Sergei) to warn the player away from the place.  The warning signs serve to reinforce this.  (I have moved them a bit - and checked the ai can get past on their own)

I could be out in the real world if it weren't for this mission of his

Share my pain.  I have not had contact with the real world since I started making this mission last September.

Not only is there building east of LaT there is a car as well. ;D

[Mikero]

@Xcess
>Shed not a building?It's there.

Rubbish.

@Planck

>full of ex-civilians

Nonsense

@Thob

>Not only is there building east of LaT

Bull.

>there is a car as well.

Momentary stunned silence.

Ook? Blink.

@#)(*&)@#) @$##)  @#@#$#$_)*(@ !

so there, and furthermore....

[wcrvieira]

@THobson

Yes we went to the Algarve on holiday a few years ago.  We nearly got blown of the cliffs.  The sardines were wonderful

Everybody is keen to know: What are your four?

Well now Portugal is hotter than some years ago, thanks to our Sahara friends. Their winds of temperatures bigger then 40º suck big arse when you wanna sleep in an attic where are already almost 35º.

What are what??? Didn't understand. btw is it for me?

Cya
NBR

[THobson]

PTnbrviera:

Only 4 have that status!

Which four?


Mikero:
Found them yet? ;D

[wcrvieira]

@THobson

HAAAAAAAAAA OK!

They are:
Stalk by Onion (I guess)
Realistic Combat Patrol by General Barron (my favourite)
Un-Impossible Mission by Macguba
Abandoned Armies by THobson

Cya
NBR

[Goettschwan]

Medic: i was not referring to the sideradio but rather to the voice sample itself, it is in plain voice as opposed to distorted radio, which was strange as he was a good time away.

I am sure i can live without any additional features in your reorganize script. It just gave me the little WTF experience with some convoy approaching Houdan as we were there and sergei running off  to rejoin the lodge  ;D Its like mikero said, its too rare an occasion to do something about it even if possible.

Lag: I don't think that the processor is in for much, my rig runs inofficial 1,6Mhz (one of these AMD XXX+) but 512 megs Ram and a Geforce 4800 maybe make up for some of it. I play fine on about 15fps.

Wolves: Well, i rather have the position that they all were quite long, i can't say if they were endless because i died everytime But it is not what i call understatement:
Last time it occured it repeated maybe thirty or forty times, i don't know if thats long? Intervals were under five seconds, and as i had a lot of time hearing your different wolf samples may i suggest a minimum approach distance for your random positioning because it sometimes fires the sample right besides you. (Under the idea that you want some faraway wolf to have some mountain feeling)

Radio: That clears it up. It looked rather like something that was not yet there.

@Mikero: How, apart ctrl/tab and copying the savegame somewhere else, do you go back three savegames ? I would be very interested in copying your technique if possible because i was stuck for a moment on the return to the lodge with an enemy team approching the lodge on short notice (but after the savegame point   ) As i had left the non-uniforms there i would have wanted to go back to the save before my save. Do not know what took the enemy to go to the lodge, but i saw an abrams taking quite a beating from somebody. maybe the war had started. Anyway i managed to get them to walk out of there as they were outgunned without me , but it would be helpful for the future.

Noticed also soundwise that you can hear the shooting at the lodge if you are in arudy. Didn't quite register that before, but it sheds a new light on battle sound and the distance i think they are. Was way too close in my estimations everytime.

StG

[THobson]

StG:

The medic calls in using sideRadio so the sound has the same hiss and click that you get when anyone in your group talks to you.  I may have the volume of the voice a bit too high so that this is not apparent.

Wolves, the number of wolves in a pack, how close they are to the player and the length of time they howl for are random but depend on things like - level of fog, rain, day or night, height above sea level.  Basically the worse the visibility the more of an effect they will have.  Possibly.

How, apart ctrl/tab and copying the savegame somewhere else, do you go back three savegames

What I do is alt/tab out of the mission and change the name of the save file - you don't need to copy it anywhere, just change its name.

Noticed also soundwise that you can hear the shooting at the lodge if you are in arudy. Didn't quite register that before, but it sheds a new light on battle sound and the distance i think they are. Was way too close in my estimations every time.

The physics of the game seem to be incorrect for sound attenuation.  I have seen some comment that the sound volume is inversely proportional to the distance from the sound source, when in fact it should be inversely proportional to the cube of the distance (asuming no reflections).  I have not been able to verify this but it would explain why you can hear things such a long way away,

[Mikero]

@Stg It's as Thob (and you) quote. alt tab and rename save file. I only use this 'technique' on specific tests. Last one was an attempt to get up that ladder before this before that before the other. While you could simply vector in, in the editor, that will never be 'as the player did it', so I don't.

As dissapointed as Thob will be, the only way I win this war is a judicious use of cheat-saves and retry points. But, the author has achieved his aim. It strikes terror in my heart each time I use a savegame. I'm convinced mostly I did it at the worst of times. Like when it's totally quiet and 'safe' to do so. Ha bloody Ha!

You have a great 'eye' StG. Your comments on the radio are thought provoking.

>Sounds

the worst thing you can do (afaik) is to set the audio options to use hardware acceleration and EAX. I have never fussed muchly to the cause, only that using these 'features' causes all sorts of irrational noise coming from irrational areas. The biggest one is chopper, you can hear it 30 meters distant even though the actual chopper is probably on Nogova.

I have not experienced your wolves StG. I have a clear idea of what you say, but it aint happened. You might check your audio settings and see.

>Frames, Bench and cpu

For everybody's benefit my bench is around 5685 and an fps of 12, using a P4 at 3gig something and lots of ram. MacGuba, correctly I believe, points out that you can effectively double the stated benchmark for Athlon cpu's. Your fps of 15 neatly fits my figures.

I have noticed (thanks to Xcess) my game runs smoother with Kegety's dxdll but I wont use it when testing.

@Thob
>Found them yet.

This is a conspiracy. They dont exist It is a figment of all your imaginations.

[Goettschwan]

@Mikero: Thanks. Your comments and reviews are at least as apt, thought provoking and to the point as you think of mine with the added plus that you do them more regularly and that you did more betatesting.


But thobson, what i wanted to say is not that you randomize the sounds, i saw that you did well on that with all the samples firing, what i wanted to say is that if you want to achieve some kind of background wolfpack sound, then you should maybe look to it that the sample does not go off somewhere lets say less than a hundred meters around the player. This of course unless you don't mind having the wolves howl inside my groups current perimeter.

Will try to have a go on my sound settings.
I may be seeing ghosts, but the medic talked to me in a normal voice without the crackleTextCrackle used on all radio communications. I found this strange myself.

StG

[Planck]

I decided to take the rest of my group with me this time.

We started off for Dourdan, as I wanted to use the truck there for transport.
First we dealt with the garrison there, there was no guard patrol anywhere, I suspect they had thrown themselves against the tanks in La Trinite.

There was a cobra wreck just outside Doudan, just beyond the garrison camp.
Ok, Dourdan was clear and I was just about to order everyone into the truck when someone reported unknown vehicle from the south.
I whipped out my binoculars and had a quick look......2 jeeps with machine guns and 4 men running along.
I suspect they had lost their jeep somewhere.

I ran to the Arudy road and laid a AV mine, actually I laid a AP mine by accident, so I moved up a bit further and laid an AV mine.
I told all my guys to go prone and hold fire.
Then I waited.

The first jeep hit the mine, but everyone was not killed, they were probably injured a bit, but they got out and I shot them.
The second jeep stopped further up the road and the troops disembarked.
I left them for now, and concentrated on the 4 loose guys.
Once they were dead I dealt with the crew of the second jeep.
The AP mine was not set off, so it still remains.

I ordered everyone up and was about to order everyone into the truck when the change flag thing happened.
I also tried the attic ladder thing again, but with the same results as before.  I still hadn't been told about this woman yet anyway.
Before going anywhere I decided to take my group to La Trinite, I wanted them to have NVG's as the light was beginning to fail. We went on foot.
La Trinite was deserted, not a soul in sight, the Abrams that was here when I left with my damaged T80 was now dead.
I got my group equipped with NVG's and also took another 2 satchels for me, then we went back to Doudan.

We got in the truck, I wasn't driving, I ordered the driver to go to Arudy.
BIG MISTAKE......It took 20 mins for us to arrive at Arudy.
The truck spent more time off the road than it did on the road.
Even at 2 FPS I could have done it in a couple of minutes.  Thats AI for you.
Never mind it gave me time to make some coffee and have a fag.
Almost at Arudy someone spotted a tank, it was damaged and abandoned.....great another tank for my collection.....a T72 this time.

We disembarked and searched the place, it was empty.
Then I got the change flag thing again.  I had 2 towns now.
Ok, everyone back into truck, I'm driving this time....next target is La Pessagne.
We came across a road block near the road junction, there was a wrecked bus there and a few bodies.

About 800 metres south of La Pessagne I pulled the truck off the road and deep into the countryside and stopped.
I disembarked and told everyone to wait for me, they were still in the truck.
I wanted to go scout out the town first.
On getting close to the town I noticed a T80 fully crewed and trying desperately to climb a mountain........up.........slide down.......up........slide down etc etc.

I went prone, but decided to try and help it up the mountain with the aid of my last satchel charge.
I crawled up close to the side of the T80 and plonked my satchel down and I was about to crawl back when I noticed this civilian walking about in front of the tank.
Well, he was wearing NVG's and he also had a gun.......hey, there is another one he has NVG's and also has a gun.
Well look at that a resistance soldier there also with similar equipment.....and by golly a woman with an M21 and NVG's.......then it clicked........this was my group.......the ones that were in the truck and were supposed to be waiting for me.

I quickly ordered them to a safe location, why the tank didn't fire on them I don't know, they were in full view.
I crawled to a safe distance and set off the satchel charge.
The tank was destroyed and the crew were killed even though they abandoned it before it blew up.
There was a refuel truck, repair truck, an ammo truck and 2 jeeps in town......more transport.  
Taking the town was easy there were 3 in a guard group and 4 in the garrison, it didn't take very long to dispatch them.
I ordered my guys into the town, whilst I was waiting for them I zipped off up to Vigny to see if there was anyone there.

Vigny was empty so I returned to La Pessagne and almost immediately got the change flag thing........3 towns now.
I ordered everyone into the trucks, I planned to take them to Arudy, from there I could repair the 2 tanks I had so I could use them.
I made sure the repair truck and the ammo truck were all fuelled up and we set off, I was driving the refuel truck.
About half way there I got a low fuel warning for the truck I was driving.
Isn't it strange a fuel truck full of fuel and you can't refuel it when it gets low, same goes for a repair truck when it is damaged I suppose.
I got to Arudy ok though, but I had to wait 30 minutes for the other trucks to arrive.

Once the repair truck arrived I ordered the driver out and drove it myself to the damaged T72, jumped out and then into the tank and repaired it, then I ordered the driver of the repair truck back in as driver again.
I jumped out of the tank, I was going to run across country and fetch my other tank for repair.
I ordered everyone to wait for me and off I went.
After running for a minute or so, I stopped and looked back, sure enough, the 2 guys that were in the repair truck were running along with me.
It seems, if you tell them to wait for you when they are in a vehicle, they jump out and follow you instead.

I ordered them back into the truck and told them again to wait, this time they did.
I got the T80 back to Arudy and repaired it.
I crewed the T72 with 3, The T80 with 3 (me included) and the last three I ordered back near Dourdan......on foot, no more truck driving for them for now. I made sure they went nowhere near my AP mine.
On the way to Dourdan we (tanks) came across 4 northern troops, on their way to Arudy, they might have spotted me taking the T80 and followed.
Anyway, as my gunner (the woman) was busy doing her nails at the time, I just ran them over and carried on.
In other words, no matter what I told my gunner to do or target, she kept the turret pointing rearwards and fired on nobody.
Occasionally she would turn the turret to look forwards but 80% of the time she kept it pointing rearwards or north.

I planned next to make my way south, first stop Houdan.......no flag there, but it was the next destination anyway.


More another time.



Planck
 

[lilwillie_WI]

A extensive journey.

I have finally ventured into enemy territory. South, solo, creeping along all the coastal and southern towns to clear them of enemy. Light resistance at all of them, did meet up with the medic stuck in jail. Curious as to the reasoning of not releasing them. Could only wonder with the ruthlessness of the enemy that when and if they return to find the guards all capped and the prisoners still there that a gruesome death would fall on them. I really pondered leaving a guy behind to let me know if a patrol is near there. Anyway, with all the southern towns cleared except Vigny, the one just south(names escape me this morning) and Chapoi I proceed to recon Chapoi,.

It was now mid afternoon, around 2pm with plenty of clear skies allowing a good recon of the town. Marking my map with points of interest I was happy I could do some late night sneak and peek and slowly widdle the enemy down with a silenced HK. WIth that I proceeded directly north from Chapoi to Arudy to see if the battle had ended. Did run into some scattered patrols and small conflicts. Watched some North and South patrols kill each other off then I was glad to snipe them from far away.

Threw Arudy, which is a waste land of destroyed tanks and dead bodies and back to base. Grabbed a loaded Ural and headed to the great ambush site south of Houdan. Setup shop and took down the jeep patrol. It was now getting close to 4pm. We slow moved along the southern mountain face until we where about 700 meters East of Chapoi. Setup defensive positions and solo crawled to find snipers with my HK. Took down 4 snipers and it is now dark as heck and raining so bad I cannot see much more than 100 meters.

Into Chapoi and slowly took down most everyone on the west end of town. Stuck in a building in the middle of town with my last save (I have used the savegame cheat at times, just a tough mission) and pondering if I will get out in one piece. Hoping for clear weather so I can have my troops to the east with NG and a good weapon loadout storm in and save my ass.

[THobson]

Guys - reading these stories really makes my day.   So many different ways to do it.

Planck - Sorry about your female gunner.  Others have a different experience of her.

I really think you should try reoganising your team.  Best results come when they are all out of their vehicles.  Go on.  You will not regret it.

You mention it getting dark what time is it?

Although the weather has a random pattern to it I have it so you get good weather to enjoy an attractive sunset.  Did you?

[Planck]

My female gunner.......or male gunner works very well as a tank gunner in any tank..........apart from mine.

I didn't notice the time......sorry.......I am further on now.

But, it was a rosy red sky anyway.  ;D ;D


Planck

[Mikero]

>Female Gunner

My experience of her when left to her own tank, or at the least I'm not in it, is that she's a very bad girl. My kind of woman

As far as _the_ tank the one you are in, it's gunner, irrespective of who, is *always* aiming at > your < convoy. Ie you in the lead and a few support vehicles behind, they are always targetted. This because, afaik, they remain enemy vehicles.

This 'constantly pointing behind' behaviour alters the moment a larger concentration of real enemy is (say) in front of you and is particularly pronounced at obvious spots like an airport attack. Until you get there, they point 'behind'.

I'm not sure if Thob could do anything about this, but it's tied up with the fact that all your convoy is 'red'. If that marker can be removed, as in side=2 in the scripts, then it would go away. I imagine that might be possible to do because he's already doing similar to flags.

It's fascinating to read other people's journeys. Truly. The number of differing scenarios is fascinating. For any of you writing your travelouges, believe me, they are of great interest to everyone. I noted the chopper in one. I've encountered crashed wrecks in entirely different scenes (Goisse vs Doudan for heavens sake). Identical vehicles, identical results, but entirely different scene-visual dependent solely on the merest twitch of your finger and a decision to move south not south east in earlier game play. For this, Thobson should be applauded. It borders on a dynamic campaign mission where the same scenario is never repeated twice. Brilliant stuff.

>extra medic

since a few people now know about this, i hope I'm not a spoiler. The scene, everything about it, is great. The ending, is not. Some have commented, correctly imho, that leaving them all locked behind the wire is very peculiar. I too felt the need to leave 3 of my people to guard them. I fully expected Thob had designed something very nasty there if I did not.

Also, these standing civils should be wounded, and, probably not standing at all. Nothing wrong with  my medic going to assist. If nothing further develops here, themewise, I think they all should gradually dematerialise into buildings. It's very typical of you Thobson to develop another richness into this mission. You've sparked more tangents for all of us where our imaginations haven't been satisfied.

[Pilot]

I finally found some time to continue.

Ok, from where I left off I was at Houdan ready to head north to rescue the second group of civies.  2 and I made our way north.  Just as we were passing Dourdan 2 spotted a bad guy, 100 meters to our left.  I imediately hop in a bush and tell 2 to hop in  one as well.  It turns out it is a whole southron squad.  I wait for them to go, but the squad wants to stay in the area.  They will go away, but not too far away, then they will come back.  It's as if they know I'm in the area, but don't know where and are searching for me.  I decide to end their searching.  I tell 2 to open fire and I myself shoot at them.  After two tries we finally kill them all.  I then get out of there as fast as I can with 2 following close behind.  I make it to the civies, get the cutscene, and return to the base.  I now decide to investigate La Trinite and see if I can't find a better weapon for me.  I decide to take a Kozlice with me as a trading weapon (why trade a perfectly good M16 for another weapon.  I may as well get rid of the crap weapons when I can).  I am thinking of attacking some smaller towns and outposts if I am able to get a better weapon (I am looking for an HK or a Bizon).

I know my progress isn't that great, but I wanted you to know I'm still testing when I can.

-Student Pilot