(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[456820]

erm okay let me rephrase it what would you advise me to do next ive got 7 men collected both groups of civillians and have siezed arudy

[Planck]

Do whatever you can to decimate the enemy whilst not getting killed.

See if you can acquire some armour.....it might need repaired first, so, maybe look for a repair truck you can steal.


Planck

[Goettschwan]

Hello. I started the mission again in its version 1.21.
I am using a 1.96 Resistance version, benchmark around 4400. No addons except Dxdll.
Disabled HIsky pack because of severe interference with the rain in the mission (as in you don't see even that far anymore because behind of rain you see an opaque kind of wall)
I am currently at the lodge. The changes i have seen until now are excellent.
Good things first:
The police jeep is a very nice idea.
Tatyanas dialogue is nicely spaced now on the first two sentences. Exactly the pause it needs imho to provide a "surprise" reaction.
The two tatyana killers are moving to a good position, somebody mentioned it makes it easier to kill them but i think it makes them more dangerous and more likely to notice you. Very good.
Roadblocks : ran into them a bit unaware. Very nice.
Regroup script: fine idea, and very good use of the citations that are used to display a bit more of character.
Things i didn't like that much:
The two squads arriving at vigny are overarmed, i am a proud owner of two pks, one M60, AA,LAW and AT4 launcher,NV Goggles,Binocs and enough M16 mags to go start a mess somewhere alone. Everything is nicely stuffed away in the jeep.  Not that its bad, but the step from "your fathers pistol" to armed to the teeth is a bit sudden. Maybe dunk a pk and the AA/AT4 launchers in favor of something more -common- like an AK?
They are less aggressive than in 1.1, it seems to me at least.
The next garrison was already mentioned to be smoking too much, you can run around in front of the guard with no reaction. The patrol will notice you after a while, though.
Your regroup script does not leave you with a two man group if you select only two men. I had thought that other than rearranging the goal was to leave people somewhere so that they would not be affected by the "all" button? Ruslan even specifically asks to be left in case we go to vigny.
Arriving at the lodge  could you maybe add a "put that gun away". I would find a guy with an assault rifle pointed at me rather suspicious after having called a Halt.
Roadblocks: They are really blocking the road ? I thought the point of a roadblock was some left space right positioning to provide a slowdown (some surpressing positions added in the middle), not a complete blocking?
Or have i not yet noticed a pattern in the roadblocks?
Audio Comments: Every time there are dead he sounds surprised,why is this?
I personally would not be so much surprised about dead in a war zone.

@mikero : a PK fits fine into the jeep, as did anything else lying around in vigny. But it seems to have sort of inventory spaces like soldiers, and so at one moment it won't let you put anything into it. I tried to cut down on space by putting only one weapon of a type into it and clicking "put XYZ mag to jeep" afterwards. In total i was able to cram more gear into it, which suits me fine.

Will try to advance more or less according to the way the mission is planned, more or less that is. Nice work Thobson, keep it up.
StG

[THobson]

456820:
I think Planck says it well.  Just imagine you are in an island with two huge armies.  What do you think would be a good thing to do at that point?

StG:

The two squads arriving at vigny are overarmed,

Two squads?  There should only be one - together or one after the other?  Do you recall the approx size of each?  Good point about them being over armed.  I meant to do something about that and see it is still on the to do list.  Incidentally I get out of Vigny as quickly as possible and so arrive at the lodge with only a few rifles.

They are less aggressive than in 1.1, it seems to me at least

Maybe - but I have done nothing to them other than cut down the number of units.

The next garrison was already mentioned to be smoking too much, you can run around in front of the guard with no reaction. The patrol will notice you after a while, though

On the list - though I am not sure what to do about it.

Your regroup script does not leave you with a two man group if you select only two men.

An early version of the script did exactly that.  I felt it better to keep the whole group intact - you can decide to park some of them somewhere - but you can still give them instructions.

Arriving at the lodge  could you maybe add a "put that gun away". I would find a guy with an assault rifle pointed at me rather suspicious after having called a Halt.

That is an excellent suggestion.  The problem is that putting the gun away involves the player moving and that will trigger the kill him bit of the code.  Did you arrive on foot or in a vehicle?

Roadblocks: They are really blocking the road ? I thought the point of a roadblock was some left space right positioning to provide a slowdown (some surpressing positions added in the middle), not a complete blocking?
Or have i not yet noticed a pattern in the roadblocks?

These are schematic road blocks I wanted to create the impression of a road block using the minimum of objects.  Also - there is a pattern to some of them.

Every time there are dead he sounds surprised,why is this?

I was trying to mix in some anger and indignation - but the real problem is: I have absolutely no idea which of these the player will find first and in what order he will come across them.

I personally would not be so much surprised about dead in a war zone.

There is more of a pattern to the bodies than there is to the road blocks.

Thank you for your kind words.  Best of luck.

EDIT:
456820:
I have just re-read your post.  You have captured Arudy.  One piece of advice:  Get the hell out of there.

[456820]

Get the hell out of there

very good advice but i took that when i hear several tanks coming luckily my 5t truck wasnt blown to bits hehe
or do you mean get the hell out of th lodge if so why ? i havent been attacked yet but im going to try and capture larche again as im surrounded with them there well not surrounded just in a difficult position

[Goettschwan]

I arrived in a vehicle. Stopped when he said halt. Got out when he said so. Thought it would be a good idea to put away the weapon, he said halt or i shoot. The thing about moving explains this. Anyway, the cutscene started some miliseconds after he finished "or i'll shoot", so there was no problem.

Found out that after they join you shooting one of them doesn't trigger any reponse from  them, effectivly i shot the team one by one very slowly without any answer. Is this planned like this ?

Well, everytime i play your mission 1.1 or 1.21 there are the two guys at vigny, a pause, a squad of about five, a pause, and a squad of about five. The pause is such that there is ample time to load all interesting weapons into the jeep and go somewhere into ambush for the next. I never lingered for long after the second group. They are all coming from roughly south. Incidentally when i stalked the garrison at the village south of vigny (is it la pessagne?) there where three people in fixed guard positions and a patrol of three. I heard a tank from roughly the vigny direction at that point moving into a position and stopping its engine, but i didn't feel like searching.

StG

[Goettschwan]

Reverted to last savegame after the tryout in TKing. Stalked the garrison at la pessagne again and then took a law launcher and waited next to the roadblock.
Took out the whole MGjeep convoy with a law in the second and fourth car just before the curve west in la pessagne. Eventually had to toss two grenades and fire a burst, and after that there was silence.
Heard the tank engine as before.Took the AT4 launcher up to vigny and got a lucky shot on a MBT. Didn't see he brought company, a t-80 and a vulcan. Retreated twice to La Pessagne to get LAW rockets and finally managed a kill on the t-80 which tried to drive through the house  where tatyana was. The Last Law lifted it up, so it exploded in the air and came to rest on top of the house. Quite hilarious to see the physics of the OfP engine in action like  this. Took maybe five minutes for the tank to come down. Didn't find vulcan, went off to the lodge.
I find that tactic of yours is working very well for stalking those tanks. One Law, and in the time the tank needs to "wake up" and be fully aware what hit him you can usually reload and move to another position, which is very much needed. I saw somebody post something about leaving AP mines at your last position, i suppose this works equally well against foot soldiers :joystick:
StG

[Uber-Pea]

OK, restarted the mission.
first i drove to the lodge and got the civilians together to optimize my squad. then got for la pessagne, as ive seen to mg jeeps standin round there when i got from vigny. went very fine, had my own convoy consisting of two mg-jeeps and the P3S getting back to the lodge. meanwhile 8, the medic, arrived. looks like youve set the jeeps to be pretty dammaged. one of them cant be fired by a loon, and when i try, the view "hops", actually, the whole jeep does (like a low-rider omg...), which makes aiming hard and bots dont shoot. the view only keeps still DURING you fire the machinegun. ok, thought i take 6 men with me and the 2 jeeps to engage arudy. tried from south and east yet, went never fine. even if i did a hella lot of dammged, either me or at least 1 squad-member got killed (what I dont accept-retry).
will be happy about having captured arudy when ive done.
fix the jeep-issue, its damn annoying having loons not shooting, without knowing why ^^
im extremely bad equipped when it comes to special eq. one law, one pk. and the pk gunner always has his pistol out for some reason. dammit. but irena is doing quite well with her hunting rifle

[Mikero]

> early war start

>I am interested in knowing what effect, if any, this had on the convoys.

Southrons zilch, what was left of them by the time I got to T3 was an ammo truck and a single troop truck but they remained in formation waypointing perfectly.

not so the northrons. Bmp and two troop trucks had got themselves totally 'stuck' just outside T3

Also had a fascinating effect Thob at end of mission, Chapoi, grief, i will *never* take the bad guys out early, you chased me with a T80 and bmp all the way up the mountain, i do mean , ALL the way !!!

But the interesting effect was I then returned a little later, and the crews of both had got out and joined their friends in the valley. They got lonely with your rejoin script. It was a marvellous scene.

> I wonder how many people would shoot sergie?

Once. Throughout the beginning mission you persistently re-inforce with voicovers the difference between us and the armies, our disgust at the unarmed civilians eg. If anything, rather than shoot the player for doing so (which you already do if I hit a team member), I would make it that the squad abandons him there and then. Powerful message.

Edit:

The two groups StG is talking about at Vigny: One is 'standard', aka it's coming up from La Pessage, the other is from the roadblock / 2nd civil area. I've encountered this lot as per StG, once half way up valley, and once where (imHo) they really deserve to be, and that's at that marvellous hut with dead resistance and civils. This is as crow flies stuff. You do it in reverse avoiding La Pessage as you do. That was a very nice touch Thob, these attention to detail things immerse you. Doesn't matter if player only sees 30% of them. I agree with StG, the weaponry is over the top. These guys are the crap troops, kept out of the front line corridor, and aren't that well armed. I'd also knock out any chance of the player getting anything, other than from dead bodies. T3 lag would be reduced as a result right?

More niggles:

La Riviere inconsistently has 2 x undamaged buildings at water's edge. A small campfire with guard troops would 'make sense' rather than yet-more-damage.

Ditto small harbour town or whatever it is halfway Le Port <> Chapoi. I would have expected an ambush roadbloack at the very least. Perhaps some scuttled boats here too.

Ditto small fort near Le Port, scuttled boats make nice eye candy.

Hut & house on small turn off to lodge is inconsistent, it's totally empty.

Extreme north west hamlet is empty, but this one 'makes sense'. (found where you parked the armour you evil man)

----

Mission plays far far better this version, with reduced Godzilla's. We even have half a chance against the 2 active ones. Thank you.

>YuriClone

You say you fixed it. I found the reason. It happens if ever you disembark with civils before getting to the lodge (and getting back in again). WomanClone remains in back of truck, she looks awfully like my girlfriend, #5.
---
#5 as others report remains a very bad girl (my kind of woman). I suspect it has a lot to do with her position in the team, she's always right place, right time, and not carrying heavy stuff to slow her down. Damn, I'm in love.

Is there any more hunting rifle ammo anywhere?

[XCess]

>YuriClone

You say you fixed it. I found the reason. It happens if ever you disembark with civils before getting to the lodge (and getting back in again). WomanClone remains in back of truck, she looks awfully like my girlfriend, #5

Wrong. I did NOT disembark but I still had Yuri in passenger side at the civils west of trinite even tho I'd left him at the lodge.

[Mikero]

Wrong is a bit strong. I may happen at other times, but it has *always* happened when i disembark/re-embarked. Having been thru this section 5 separate times so far, it hasn't happened for me 'normally'

[THobson]

StG:

Found out that after they join you shooting one of them doesn't trigger any reponse from  them, effectivly i shot the team one by one very slowly without any answer. Is this planned like this ?

I had thought of making Alexi a renegade if he did this (set his rating to -100000 or some such).  The problem with that is I can think of no way of distinguishing between Alexi deliberately killing one of his team and him doing it accidentally (for example by hitting a tank with a LAW when there are team mates about).  So I decided to just use what standard OFP does.  Try killing one of the civis though and it is a different matter.

Glad you are enjoying it.  I am still puzzled by the second group that arrive at Vigny from the south - see below.


Uber-Pea:
The jeeps are generally kept in good repair, they will occasionally become damaged on their journey but will be repaired once they get back to base.

the pk gunner always has his pistol out for some reason. Dammit

I give some of the resistance soldiers a handgun for effect, it is realistic for them to have some when you meet them.  But for game play it is better the get the guys to drop their hand guns as soon as you can.

Mikero:

not so the northrons. Bmp and two troop trucks had got themselves totally 'stuck' just outside T3

Convoys getting themselves into a mess was the bane of my life in the early stages of making this mission.  Providing the player keeps away they will eventually sort themselves out.

and the crews of both had got out and joined their friends in the valley. They got lonely with your rejoin script. It was a marvellous scene.

It is certainly true that in the end game crew will get out of their vehicles and join with other infantry groups.  It is also true that there is not much in the way of organization in the south so you might find crew and pilots mixed in with infantry even at the start of the mission.

Consequences for killing Sergei:  Very neat idea.  I will need to think about that.  It does have the effect of brining back some linearity to the game by corralling the player into doing something in a specific way.  The mission is doable even if the player kills Sergei before talking to him.  It is just a different mission.  

The two groups StG is talking about at Vigny: One is 'standard', aka it's coming up from La Pessage, the other is from the roadblock / 2nd civil area.

This is another data point in my ‘2nd civi area is haunted' theory.  There are no soldiers at the roadblock / 2nd civil area.  I can't have them there becasue if the player engages them, guard units will turn up eventually spot the northron jeep patrol and a war will start.  

I'd also knock out any chance of the player getting anything, other than from dead bodies.

This is a major change.  It would be realistic, but I think it would add significantly to the mission duration.  I would be interested in hearing what others think about this:  Basically: No ammo crates and no ammo trucks in the mission.

La Riviere inconsistently has 2 x undamaged buildings at water's edge. A small campfire with guard troops would 'make sense' rather than yet-more-damage.

Ditto small harbour town or whatever it is halfway Le Port <> Chapoi. I would have expected an ambush roadbloack at the very least. Perhaps some scuttled boats here too.

Ditto small fort near Le Port, scuttled boats make nice eye candy.

Hut & house on small turn off to lodge is inconsistent, it's totally empty.

Extreme north west hamlet is empty, but this one 'makes sense'. (found where you parked the armour you evil man)

I did have some things in some of these, NW hamlet had bodies (not now consistent with the ethos of Andropov) and Cancon and La Riviere had small infantry patrols.  They went to try and cut down on lag.

Good ideas though.  I will see what I can do.

Is there any more hunting rifle ammo anywhere?

No.  The armies have no need for it.  But it has given me an idea.


Mikero & XCess:
I have no idea what is causing the YuriClone issue for some of you.  There is a deleteVehicle line in the script that should get rid of him.  Next version does not have a clone for Yuri - just for HoudanWoman (I had better check her similarity to Irena).  I do a deleteVehcile on her, and I setPos her to [0,0,0] just to be sure.

[dmakatra]

I've gotten really, really tired the last few months of OFP. I've allowed myself to fall into the trap of more, shall we say, less delicate computer games as well as this mysterical cult ritual socializing with other humans. Sometimes I've even been outside, if you know of such a foul place.

Let's see if this 'ere new 1.2 thingy can get me back on the right track.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Mikero]

>no ammo crates would add significantly to the mission duration.

 ;D ;D ;D

>The mission is doable even if the player kills Sergei before talking to him.  It is just a different mission.  

leave exactly as is then, on the basis of there's no "right way"

@dmakatra  :wave:

[XCess]

I left the mission to roll on for a bit, see if the lag would die down a bit. Went for a cigarette and came back to find my medic dead by the hands of a lone PK gunner... Damn you THob. So I go through the team reorganise thing... what does it actually do??  I just selected everyone On the second go through of that Irena was begging me to go to Dourdan to check on Sergei's girlfriend. As the only vehicles I had were a BMP ambulance (I got this when I went to check on the war in Trinite.. I didn't actually see anyone, just heard them)  and Ural Ammo (i chose the Ural) I could only take two people with me.. Sergei and Yuri it is.  

As we approached Dourdan I was getting reports of units moving into the lodge, from the south I think.. the machinegunner came from the north. Me Sergei and Yuri took Dourdan with no problems.. Except at one point i had to crawl right up to on soldier and shoot him point blank,, he wasnt even moving, just led down looking towards the tents. I tried getting up the ladder Planck style but ended up about 10metres on the other side of the building  :-\.

By the time this was done. EVERYONE at the lodge was dead.