(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[lilwillie_WI]

Got up the hill, from a different angle and found the appropriate house. Its much lighter in this version, more sun I mean, or maybe its my moniter...

cheers
GRK

You know, that was the first thing I noticed. And it is so fitting I hope it stays.

The old saying goes. "Red at night, Sailors delight"..."Red in the morning, Sailors be warning."

Going on that, whenever you have a red sunrise like that, figure the weather will be shit, if it is a red sunset like that, the weather that night and next day should be good.

Just a old sailor saying some crusty Navy men told me when I was young

Ok, back to the regularly scheduled program

[Mikero]

@Guilty

>As you can see THobson, my evil plan will be realized tomorrow

BWAHAHAAH


God, i really must stop saying that....


where'z my pillz

[Pravit]

Just downloaded your mission and played it a bit, it's really impressive! Don't know if this has been mentioned before(I didn't read all 80 pages) - upon reaching Vigny, I saw a house with some guys standing in it. I walked up to it as my uncle might be in there. There was a guy standing at the door watching me. He didn't shoot, so I figured they weren't going to be hostile. I went around to the other side and walked in the house, more soldiers. Then I notice a girl on the bed and walk in - the cutscene makes references to me shooting them all, but I haven't. Of course, I promptly loaded my savegame and shot them all for continuity's sake

I'll try to post more comments as I play along.

[THobson]

PTnbrvieira:

For the first time in my life I was afraid of fighting in a video game...

Wonderful, not that I want to frighten you, just that it obviously is a pretty real experience.

lilwillie_WI:

Contimplated leaving her in the room to see if it triggered something different but decided to play it out.

This is an option I have dealt with explicitly.  It would not make for a great mission.

Did notice no voice over for the scene showing the graves

You are the second person to mention this.  I hope it is just because the guy that says it is some distance from the camera and so is quieter than usual.  I will change this so the volume of that bit is higher.

I have had a bit of lag threw this version. Seems choppy at times and I have had nothing new in the PC since V1.21

These comparisons are very helpful.

My brother downloaded this version but has run into problems. I imagine on his end. The save game in the radio isn't there and the cheat save won't work.  Any other reports of that? Like I said, I imagine it is with his PC.

These are strange things, no one else has reported them.

yankme:

THobson hey whens the next one comeing out, ill be waiting  hurry up and do it again, i spent about 5 hours just on my intro for the mission iam working on, ''so you know iam just joking,'' i liked the AV's and AP,s but my men didnt seem to be watching what i was doing and steped on them,  well maybe i did!

Lol twice.

Mikero:

>T3 Convoys

the biggest difference I know of around T3 is that you have put roadblocks in the town. Perhaps and maybe? the engine is calculating them into it's waypoint moves?

Well the version you are playing seems fine.  In my run through I was in and around LaT up until around 13:00 and the convoys were running quite happily then.  Well actually one problem I noticed was that they were not alternating, I would get about 5 from the north for every 3 from the south.  No something happened in v1.24 that I am still working on.  I think I now have it working, but I will need to soak test it a few times to be confident.

GRK:

look like they are setdammaged and not shot. I think it'd look better if they were shot.

You are quite correct.  Maybe I could camcreate a bullet at their location.  Does anyone know if this will work?

I dunno if it really matters having those in there. I can tell that something bad happened and the civvies are all left about. Plus the explanation later at the lodge seems to take away the right those text/voice messages had to be there. Also I inferred something was off as the dead soldiers were covered and the civvies left in the open. So what I'm getting at, is some of those voice overs about dead civvies are not really needed because the player either 1.) finds out on his/her own what happened or 2.) they find out the whole story at the lodge at some point.

Good point.  I think though that someone playing this the first time might find making that connection a bit more difficult.  Happy to hear any other views.

I thought the bus warranted a voice over as there was a lot of death there, but nothing,

There should have been.  I will see if I can widen the trigger area.

they were still stuck in their go prone positions as I left them

And I thought that I had taken care of every possibility.  I do give them a switchmove - but not the setunitpos

Best of luck with your evil plan.  Did you notice anything about the ammo crates at LaT - like maybe those in one of the huts are empty?

I am pleased you like the improvements.  The voiceovers at Vigny each require a trigger, but once fired the trigger is deleted, and anyway whether you have heard the voices or not the triggers are deleted when you have the first cutscene at the mountain lodge, so they should not contribute to lag after that.

GRK & lilwillie_WI:
Well spotted.  From v1.10 on the start time of the mission is 24 hours and 10 minutes later than in v1.00.  The reason for the 24 hours is that originally the mission was set for 10 December, but of course the player has no way of knowing it is December, so I changed it to 11 December so they would not think I was falling into the 10 May trap.  The extra 10 minutes is indeed to make the start slightly lighter.

Pravit:
Thank you and welcome.  Gee I despair.  Something about the rain the fog or the time of day makes the first few loons you meet behave as if they have been smoking dope all night.  This really does show the benefits of beta testing - I know they are enemy so I get my retaliation first.  It would never occur to me to do what you did.  I will have to deal with this.  I look forward to hearing of your progress.


All:
Been busy at work, hence the slowness at responding.  I hear your comments about not putting a rough next version up yet.  That is fine, it is still too rough anyway.

I head off on my holidays on Saturday but between now and then I will be needed for packing and things so I am not sure how much I will get on here for a while.  Speak with you all later and thank you all for your tremendous encouragement - but I do wish you would stop finding problems.  Actually that is not true, I do wish there were no more problems for you to find.  I suppose eventually we will get there.

[wcrvieira]

@THobson

Wonderful, not that I want to frighten you, just that it obviously is a pretty real experience.

Well it didnt frighten me just in that second it scared the crap out of me...
I was home alone... in the dark...playing this mission with headphones.
Suddendly I was around a house watching horizon when I see in Binocs some men, look back, more men, look left, more men  :-\
(Was using ECP) so the visual experience was even better.
Stupid as I am, dropped the AK74   and then shit hit the fan...really  

I was so pissed, (personal problems) I started shooting like I was in a shooting range... they running at me from every side (I was at this time in a house hiding)...
Bam,bam, two down... (with pistol), more two from behind (shot from window), then I could only see some bullets entering the house by the window...

Suddenly...silence...

Out from the blue a grenade falls right from the door, right in my head...

I jumped from the chair... shutdown my laptop... ate some corn flakes and went to bed
Damn! Never felt like this in OFP...

What a scary moment...

cya

NBR Out!

[Mikero]

So what I'm getting at, is some of those voice overs about dead civvies are not really needed because the player ...

My take on that is that the voiceovers aren't for the player! They're there for the player's character, Alexi.

THobson has put this and many other things like this, into the mission, to teach the player how Alexi will react to certain events later on. One of the best examples I know of is the 'unecessary' speech after 1st Lodge where Alexi mutters that they're all following him! Well, of course they are Duh!, but it makes for a powerful difference in how the player then treats Alexi and what the then young kid is getting into.

The other thing these particular voiceovers are doing is the all important player feedback, a sense that as a player, you're stubmbling into the 'right' areas and getting a reaction. It makes you want to hunt for more of them. Especially when it comes to 'clues'.

[Dubieman]

Well I don't want him to take all of them out. Its really only in Vigny when there is a comment for every body. I think just having the soldiers under tarp comment would suffice for that area. As for the other areas, I like the voice overs. And the one about them following him cause of the uniform, I just loved that cause it deepens the story.

@bus: I guess I didn't go to the right side of it or something. My fault... ;D

@bullet camcreate: I assume it would work as camcreating a rocket causes an explosion. If that isn't so, just have them shot via old grouping trick.

@proneness: Hey beta testing fixes everything but your pride.
That was just of a result of me leaving my poor mates in the putrid lodge.
 

@ammo: Yes one side was empty, the side where I get my detonators. The other side has assorted small arms that I like, but no explosives. Actually on second thought, I didn't go through the list that extensively and prolly missed something.  

@Well spotted!   = Where's my toothbrush! ;D

I like it being brighter, you feel like your getting closer to a "goal" by getting to the top and closer to the sun (light, warmth, goody goody feelings). Plus I can see better. ;D

I also noticed your radios in vehicles, I do like this a lot when I'm on a long drive or waiting for something to happen. It improves the tone of the mission and my mood while I'm waiting. I also see a med kit in the lodge, haven't used it yet. But I like that its in there.

@current status: Nothing happening really, still waiting on a convoy. I haven't been playing for too much longer. Maybe 5 minutes. Anyways "3" spotted lots of soldiers around my lodge. Two infantry groups by my guessing and an APC. (They must be pissed at losing three men and a jeep from earlier) I had forgotten that my ppl were still ordered to engage at will and even killed 2 enemies before I told them to stop cause I don't want to lose anyone so early in the mission to a nade or a M2A2 cannon. Nobody died and the enemy moved on. I have also started to throw weapons in the BMP ambulance, so I can make a quick getaway with the goods if needed. Though I won't be going anywhere for awhile once the war starts. ;D

Cheers
GRK


EDIT: Status report: I've stocked the BMP and am waiting for convoy. Southerons show up and their infantry jumps out. I jump out of my wrecked house (3 story) and just go full auto with the bizon into the front of the M2A2 and I kill 1 soldier and wound another. I duck back inside before the armor can find me.  ;D

I wait and the idiot soldiers get stuck in my house and I've killed about 5 of them. Then to really stir things up I've stolen a M60 and I've been firing into a wall randomly to mess with them, then found some enemy standing outside so I leveled 2 of them. Dropped the M60 and got my Bizon back and headed to the second floor and went prone to hide. I figure on letting these guys do what they want as they can't shoot me. I was stupid and stood in the wrong place one time and a hail of bullets and a grenade hit the house, yikes!

So I've found a safe spot and plan on keeping the Southerons active in La Trinite until their buddies arrive to start the war.

One odd thing: The guy with the Southeron flag, the commander of the M2A2(he's got a crew uniform), is out of his APC and is running about with the footsoliders. I dunno why this is and I can see his APC behind the church and its not moving, but looks fine(not damaged or tipped over). I wonder why he is out of his vehicle? Also he seems intent on killing me plus he seems to have the convoy's grunts surrounding my house and pointing guns at it. He then ventured in my house and skipped off before I could get downstairs to knick him. ;D Its kinda weird when you feel like the AI is planning something, but if only they knew what I have in store for them  later. When all hell breaks loose... ;D ;D

[rado1265]

Well I don't want him to take all of them out. Its really only in Vigny when there is a comment for every body.

I totally agree.  The voice overs (like all other things) are nice only if are not overdoned.

[THobson]

GRK:

the commander of the M2A2(he's got a crew uniform), is out of his APC and is running about with the footsoliders. I dunno why this is

That makes two of us.  But it is an interesting development. ;D

Its kinda weird when you feel like the AI is planning something, but if only they knew what I have in store for them  later. When all hell breaks loose...

Would this be a good time to explain that although the grunts on the ground will attack each other given the slightest chance - there is at a high level some cooperation between the two sides, otherwise  there could be no trade.  That level of cooperation extends to scheduling the convoys.  Knowing what their own soldiers would do if they meet up with the other side, the controllers ensure that no convoy leaves its base until the otherside's convoy has left La Trinite (or is dead).  Does this have any impact on the predicament you are now in? ;D  

karantan:
My current plan is not to remove the Vigny voiceovers.  The prime candidates for lag reduction are the environmental sounds that you may notice around.  But even then I think the bulk of the lag comes from the number of armour units - and I really don't want to do anything to them.  So I may just have to get adjusted to that being the lag associated with this mission.

[Dubieman]

Well I could go through what just happened in the past hour, but I figured, hell that was a lot of fun to watch (command view) and what the fudge, I wanna watch it again! ;D So I'm gonna sit back, not tell my fun story and watch it all happen again since I didn't save today. You know your mission is good when people don't save just so they can expierence a certain part again.

@crew ppl out of armor: I really don't know why he would get out as his APC is in fine working condition.

Actually I'm even more confused... I've killed that guy with the flag in my wrecked house(AI cannot deal with the houses in La Trinite) and the convoy took off. Then later I know it comes back and it has a M2A2. I can't remember if it had a flag or not...

THobson, if a crew member dies, do you replace them when they return to base?

@your sneaky AI: Yes it sort of does. Whenever I cause trouble they follow me into my house and being unable to deal with the wrecked house and clipping, they are easy kills for me at 1m away. After a few die they surround the house once more and point guns at it. ;D

However that's all falling apart as they find the other side arriving in town.

@1 more thing: I placed an AV mine without the removal of a RPG I was carrying. I definately saw the little mine object there and later when I set another it did remove my RPG.  :-\

I have no idea if the phantom mine worked, it may not have (but I notice I have 18 tripwires and 8 detonators now). Or in your expierence, does the AV mine with a RPG destroy or damage a M2A2?

Edit: And reading back on your other pages, ppl say they have lots of lag when lots of tanks are around, could this be because of the smoke script?

So far my lag hasn't been bad at all.

[rado1265]

THobson,

my comment was not related to the lag problem, neather was GRKs (I think); it's just that those voice overs are kind of unnecessary there, if you know what I mean.

About the lag: yes, you have a problem there, and it seems you're quite aware of it, so there is no need to be reminded (again) on this.

[THobson]

THobson, if a crew member dies, do you replace them when they return to base?

No, but they are healed.  There are no replacements anywhere on the map so every loon you kill is one less to be dealt with later.

 

I placed an AV mine without the removal of a RPG I was carrying. I definately saw the little mine object there and later when I set another it did remove my RPG.

This is a bug that only applies to RPGs and is fixed in the next version.  Yes the phantom mine will explode.

karantan:
Thanks.  Let me think about it.  I am currently more when Mikero is on this.

[Pravit]

A few questions(sorry if they have been answered earlier in the thread) -
is it intentional that I'm not able to pick up any extra M16 or AK magazines from the dead soldiers in the beginning?

Also, is Alexei supposed to say anything when he encounters the cabin with dead civilians east of La Trinite? I figured he would say something(e.g. "A dead policeman! Just left lying here!").

I noticed that the medic guy(Corporal Bocan or Ivanov, I think) that I met west of La Trinite was sent back to escort the civilians. When he was done, he joined my group. It was kind of a nuisance since he was a few km away and I kept accidentally including him in the orders to the group members who were actually with me. I did try to reorganize my group to get him out of my squad for the time being but I didn't notice anything to kick somebody out.

I'm enjoying however being sent on little "quests" to rescue civilians or meet up with more resistance members, and it's neat that so much voice is used.

[THobson]

is it intentional that I'm not able to pick up any extra M16 or AK magazines from the dead soldiers in the beginning?

You can pick up everything they have they just don't have much.  In the next version this shortage of ammo extends across the whole island.

is Alexei supposed to say anything when he encounters the cabin with dead civilians east of La Trinite?

Yes, but in the version on the site now there is a bug that prevents it.

It was kind of a nuisance since he was a few km away and I kept accidentally including him in the orders to the group members who were actually with me.

One of the challenges of leadership.  Try using teams (9)

I didn't notice anything to kick somebody out.

I took that feature out


I am glad you like it.

[Mikero]

@Guilty

Its really only in Vigny when there is a comment for every body. I think just having the soldiers under tarp comment would suffice for that area.

You're 100% on the money. Mea Culpa

In fact, 'Vigny' remains a work in progress that MacGuba was first to point out. The 'problem' is we are all moths to flames and will head for the house with light before anything (well, unless you're a bit strange)

This makes some, possibly most, of the very large quantity of body-voicevers inconsistent. The phrasing is as if we encounter them first, before Tatyana.

Put another way, I would have welcomed each and every one of them, IF, i had entered this evil looking, 'psycho' town where there was no Tatyana, no, fire. Ie, any, feedback would have subdued my intense fear, even talking to myself. And by fear, I mean it, I wet myself first go at this.

Thobson, obviously and clearly, was using a scenario build up to the entire campaign at this point, the shock, awe, and wonder, of stumbling into a massacre. I would *really* love it if he could persist with _that_ introduction to the mission, but, it can't be with Tatyana because it's then all a bit anticlimactic and ho-hum. So most of the body voicovers at Vigny should dissapear, or move Tatyana. Vigny is a long way from Passagne, there's a valley between, and a small house with fire would not go astray.

Gee, I'm rambling here, but I *really hope* Thobson puts that original intention back in. Right now, it's wasted.