Where are my waypoints

[penguinman]

hello,
I cant get the game to show any waypoints i make.
I used to have waypoints show but now they dont work???
I tried the always show in the waypoint box but still no waypoints. I have an icon on the map that looks normal but when I click preview mission there are no yellow squares with "move" or "destroy" or anything. this is confusing me allot and I dont know how to get them to show up?

thanks

[macguba]

It is an interesting feature of this forum that a question doens't come up for ages, and then three people ask it in close succession.    *sigh*    A bit like busses I suppose.

The show waypoint button refers to whether waypoints appear on the map.   It has nothing to do with yellow boxes.    The mission editor defaults to Veteran mode, you must manually go into Cadet mode before starting the mission editor.     When designing your mission, remember that Veteran mode players will not see your waypoints.    Never use player waypoints to make things happen, always use triggers.

However, my advice is to ignore that answer, forget Cadet mode altogether and never touch it again.  

[dmakatra]

Check the FAQ, the ed depot and before you post, as this have been up millions of times. :-\

And Macca is right. Vet is sooo much better. Never touched it until I went for the editor. Then I was like "waaaa, this is so much better!".

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[penguinman]

Ok I looked at the other posts on this and understand how to get waypoints to show up but

could you please explain a little more
About vet mod why it is better and what it does to waypoints.

Are you saying i should stop making waypoints for the player?

but then how would he know where to go?

Im sorry but this time you guys have confused me even more than I already was.


a little more explanation please ;D
thanks

[Triggerhappy]

they are saying to use triggers to tell the person where to go. as in giving him the order to move somewhere through a trigger's activation line
e.i. unit move getpos whatever

[General Barron]

they are saying to use triggers to tell the person where to go. as in giving him the order to move somewhere through a trigger's activation line
e.i. unit move getpos whatever

...no, actually that doesn't work.   It is just like placing a WP in the editor.

could you please explain a little more
About vet mod why it is better and what it does to waypoints.

In cadet mode, you get those little yellow boxes showing you where your WPs are. In vet mode, you don't get those boxes (unless you are in a tank or helo or other vehicle). There are lots of other differences between cadet and vet mode (not related to WPs). Basically, in cadet mode you get lots of unrealistic things to help you know what is going on. Many people (like myself) only use vet mode because it is more realistic.

Are you saying i should stop making waypoints for the player?

You can still make WPs, because they will still show up on the map. However, don't put anything in the activation field of those WPs, and don't synch them to anything. Basically, you can't rely on the player actually "completing" those WPs. Players in cadet mode will still get to see the WPs though, and those in vet mode will still see them on the map, if you choose. Vet mode players will also see the WP if they are in a vehicle, but personally I don't like seeing WPs when I get in a vehicle.

Now if you had things synching the player's WP or putting stuff in it's activation field, you should place a trigger at his "waypoint" instead. Group the player to the trigger, and only him or his group will activate it. Then just synch things to that trigger, instead of using a WP. As stated before: there is no garuntee (can't spell that word) that the player will do his wp's in the order you want him to, nor can you be sure he will actually walk exactly where you want him to.

Basically, you can't use WPs for the player the same way you would use it for the AI, because the player has RI (real intelligence), and can choose to do things however he wants.

but then how would he know where to go?

Most missions rely on the briefing, and markers placed on the map, in order to tell the player what to do. Cadets get to see where they are on the map, so they shouldn't have any trouble at all. Vets don't get that luxury, but as long as you tell the player where he is starting from, he can find his way around (since he has a compass). If there are landmarks like towns, then that makes it extremely easy to orient yourself as well. Most people know the layout of the islands pretty well anyway.

And oh yeah, even vets can find where they are by cheating, if they have a squad ("2, report status"). I have to admit I do this on occasion myself.

If you really want to help the player know where he is, you can make a marker follow him around on the map using a script such as the one here here.

[macguba]

The mission designer can tell the player what to do, or at least give him clues, from:

- Mission title
- Overview text
- Overview picture
- Intro
- Briefing text
- Briefing pictures
- Objectives
- Default Gear selection
- Gear choices
- Squad composition
- Map markers
- Hints
- Radio messages
- Cutscenes

In addition, the mission designer can provide information in the mission.   For example, if the player has to find a secret helicopter base you could have a fuel convoy going to the base.    The player can spot the convoy and follow it.     The variety of clues you can provide within the mission is virtually infinite and of course depends on what the mission is.

In addition, the player can use his hunting instincts and common sense to work out what to do.    A good mission will encourage this, since it is an important part of what makes a game like this fun.

In addition, many players can use their general knowledge of military tactics to work out what to do.

In addition, the designer can create a puzzle element to the mission, making it a sort of treasure hunt.   In this case the player must use logic (and perhaps a little intuition) to figure out what to do.


That's not a comprehensive list, its just what I thought of off the top of my head.    Few missions will use all of the above, but all good missions will use most of them.    

This is why the yellow boxes are so evil.    If the mission is well designed you just don't need them, but if they are present then they overwhelm everything else.      Do you like it when somebody tells you exactly what to do in RL?   Well why do you want it in a game then?

[penguinman]

ok thank you i understand now but one more thing.
say I want the player to go east to search for somthing.
I just want him to go in the general direction. but im afraid he wont be able to find what he is looking for because he is in a forest and the comander guy just says you are going to search to the east. What would I do to keep him on the right course?
thanks for clearing it up for me

[Planck]

What would I do to keep him on the right course?

Make sure he has a compass.


 ;D


Planck

[macguba]

When you want the player to search and find something in an area, it can be helpful to place clues.  

Far away from the target, there is nothing.    

The closer you get to the target, the more there is going on.    Exactly what depends on the nature of the target.   It might be foot or vehicle patrols, static objects, wrecked vehicles, deserted guard posts .....

Closer still and you can make the target easier to see by placing fires, flags or other obvious objects.    But keep it realistic, always think "what would really be there?"

Alternatively/additionally, give the player a radio message from his commander if he goes too far away.

However, better than all of that is simply a good clear Briefing and a sensible location given the nature of the target.    In general one of the signs of a good mission is that in situations like this you can study the map, have a good hard think, and find the target at the first or second attempt wihtout square-searching the entire area.

[penguinman]

well see...
the problem is at that time you dont really know what your enemy is, you have not seen a single enemy unit but you know they are there, like unknown sniper fire and having your transport plane shot down. You are sent out to find the other planes that were shot down. Im leaving the player guessing who the enemy is untill the most suspensful moment of the game.
And there is nothing i can really put as a clue that wouldnt be majorly out of place. your in the middle of the jungle.
i was sort of thinking the mangled corpse of one of your fellow comrads from the other plane crash but then i thought.. how would it just get to that spot and not be near the plane.
thanks

[dmakatra]

He has a compass y'know...

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[macguba]

Well there are loads of things you can do.     Enemy chopper circling the area on the same search as you.     Clues in the Briefing text, for example rumours from civilians or a vagure report from a plane that survived.     A well defined search area with other teams are searching adjoining areas.    Place a bunch of fires under the plane so that all you have to do is look for the smoke:  maybe delete the fires when the player gets close.     Alternatively, have the plane visible from a vantage point such as the highest point in the search area.

Just apply some imagination to the problem.