First Aid Simulation and Respawn troubles

[Goos]

Okay here is the scoop. Creating a rather long coop mission so I want to use the first aid modules for it's quality coop appeal as well as respawn if the whoal squad gets wiped out.

Everything works fine apart from one prob. I set up a straight forward test mission with a typical respawn at base and the "First aid: Simulation" and "First Aid: battlefield clearance" modules linked to my guy and an opfor laying in wait to shoot me. I get myself shot and whilst laying there injured in need of medical attention I hit esc and respawn. I respawn fine but the problem is I'm stuck with a blurred red vision as if I'm still incapacitated (but in fact fine and moving). Does anyone know how to get round this?

Many thanks in advance.

On a side note. Does anyone know what the "first aid: action" module does?

First Aid: Simulation - lets people get incapacitated and revive
First Aid: Battlefield Clearance - allows dragging and carrying
First Aid: Action -

[nominesine]

According to a similar thread in BI Forum (link missing) it works this way:

First Aid - Simulation: Allows units to enter the wounded state where they wriggle on the ground instead of dying

First Aid - Action: Allows their team members to stop their bleeding and revive them slightly

First Aid - Battlefield Clearance: Enables the drag and carry options

[bardosy]

So, is it possible to enable the wounded state and the revive to the enemy groups too? And I have to sync this only one First Aid module to every group, or I have to put and other FA module form them?

[Goos]

@nominesine
 This is what I thought but I can place a first aid simulation and nothing else and still be able to revive hence my confusion.

@bardosy
 from my limited testing yes. sync it to enemy groups and they fall prone and reviveable even by you their enemy. of course they will typically turn round and shoot you in the face for your trouble after you do lol. From what I have gathered about the AI however they will only revive members of their own team. I have tested myself being incapacitated and AI on the same side as me but in a different party/group nearby and they just ignore me and let me squirm. Oh and you only need to link one first aid module to the leader of each group for every member of the group to be effected by it. Link first aid battlefield clearance to any unit you want to activate the drag or carry with or again to a group leader if you want the full group able to. (I have however never seen AI drag or carry others)

I guess the problem with trying to get the revive and respawn to work together is just an outright bug and a major one at that. Seems I also become invincible after respawning under this situation. truly hope they fix it.

[bardosy]

Thank you for the test and the answer! It's very useful!

[Spooner]

First Aid - Action: Allows units to enter the wounded state where they wriggle on the ground instead of dying. Allows their team members to stop their bleeding and revive them slightly, with instant effect (think: BF2 revive).

First Aid - Simulation: Allows units to enter the wounded state where they wriggle on the ground instead of dying. Revive takes quite a long time. This is an alternative to the Action system, so don't need both of them. This explains the internal name for this module, which is Alternative Injury System (In fact, the "Action" code is run as well as the Simulation code if you put a Simulation logic in the mission).

First Aid - Battlefield Clearance: Enables the drag and carry options. Doesn't mind which other FA system is in use, but drag/carry is really rather pointless using the Action system, since you can instantly revive people.

Medics, in all cases (vanilla, Action, Simulation), are the only ones that can really heal people of damage. Action/Simulation revive just stops bleeding and wakes injured man up.

Lots of bugs in the system regarding JIP and respawn. Just give it time to get itself fixed...

[CrashDome]

In OFP, if you had a medic all by itself in a group with a waypoint "SUPPORT", you could call the medic to come heal you even though they were in a different group by using the proper radio command. If they were (Edit)Grouped with a manned truck, they would actually get in the truck and be driven over to heal you.

Maybe,...   you can do the same to get other groups to come to your rescue in Arma2?

Would be even cooler if they were attached to a medivac chopper or jeep if it still works like it did in OFP.

EDIT: Just tried this in the demo version. Support waypoint works but you must be a group leader to use the command (radio 5-1-1) and if you group a medic with a vehicle, they get driven over but don't actually do any healing. They just stand there once they disembark.

Also, new option for support calls I never saw before: Ambulance.  Calling it throws a voice cfg error and nothing happens.

[Goos]

First Aid - Action: Allows units to enter the wounded state where they wriggle on the ground instead of dying. Allows their team members to stop their bleeding and revive them slightly, with instant effect (think: BF2 revive).

But if I place a "First Aid: Action" module and nothing else they just seem to die and not go into the incapacitated state. I tried it before and just tried it again and unless I use the "simulation" module they just die.

In OFP, if you had a medic all by itself in a group with a waypoint "SUPPORT", you could call the medic to come heal you even though they were in a different group by using the proper radio command. If they were (Edit)Grouped with a manned truck, they would actually get in the truck and be driven over to heal you.

Heal yes maybe but the way the AI has been reacting so far I doubt they will actually revive from an incapacitated state. I'll try it out to be sure though thanks for the suggestion.

**EDIT**
Holy hell it actually worked! Simple test. Placed me, an AI guy in group with me and spawned us both with health/armor set low so we both spawn incapacitated. Placed a corpsman synced the first aid module with us and the corpsman, gave the corpsman a support waypoint and sure enough if I call support and hit medic he comes running and revives us!!! I didn't expect that at all. Alas I MUST be part of a group to make the call in the first place but hell I was planning that for the mission anyway. Thanks for getting it in my mind to try it CrashDome I may be able to work in some workaround this way. It'll do for now I guess untill they hopefully fix it. If nothing else it's good to know that a support medic can actually do this.

On a side note the problem you mentioned with the ambulance support call is because you need a "HMMWV (ambulance)" placed on the map with a support waypoint to actually work.

**EDIT2**
If it aint one thing it's another... Call a medic he comes and revives (great) but after he does he just sits there and if you call again he does nothing... This game just doesn't want to cut me much slack at all.

[Spooner]

Regarding the issues with Action first aid, I suspect this is a bug, not an intended behaviour. As I said, when you place an Action logic, it runs First Aid. If you place a Simulation logic, it runs First Aid + Alternative Injury System. This implies that Action should work on its own. I've not had Action mode work correctly either (if it wasn't supposed to work on its own, then there would only be a Simulation logic, not two separate ones).

[CrashDome]

If it aint one thing it's another... Call a medic he comes and revives (great) but after he does he just sits there and if you call again he does nothing... This game just doesn't want to cut me much slack at all.

One thing you could try is creating a cycle waypoint after the support. What I mean is, it might be he just sits there because his waypoint has been acheived and goes away. You might be able to cycle it so after the healing, he heads back home and starts the cycle over again.

As cool as it was (the SUPPORT option), I never thought it worked 100% and I am not sure if they've updated it since OFP to be honest. The AI can use the support call too and other groups tended to call for every paper cut they got and kept the medics too busy for the player. It also means a medic in another fighting group could not be used. Overall, it's nice to play with for small SP missions but lacks the flexibility for larger or MP missions.

[Goos]

One thing you could try is creating a cycle waypoint after the support. What I mean is, it might be he just sits there because his waypoint has been acheived and goes away. You might be able to cycle it so after the healing, he heads back home and starts the cycle over again.

I had the same line of thinking and a cycle waypoint was the first thing I tried as soon as I descovered the problem and alas the same thing still happens. The medic just becomes utterly useless after his first call. I guess I'll just have to use the revive scripts that are floating around at the moment even though they have a bunch of bells and whistles that are of no interest to me. Apreciate the help though guys.

[Rommel92]

In defence of the revive scripts, they work much nicer, they aren't nearly as buggy; and most you can disable all the whistles and bells on anyway, so give it a shot. Especially norrins.

First aid is completely unusable due to the invulnerability and red after death screen bug. It has numerous other bugs in MP where you can't heal etc; or you become a zombie etc etc.

Really poorly done. Would be better to see the animations be used in the new revives scripts by Norrin though.

[Goos]

Okay so what seemed to be a godsend comes along in patch 103 where the problem I detailed with revive and respawn was solved. I rejoiced right up until I tried it...

The problem with the red screen and being invulnerable does indeed seem to be solved however there is a but. Now after the respawn the enemy AI completely ignores me like the unit I am playing has been set to "setCaptive true"

Now I have seen some collosal cockups in my time but do these people have chimps testing things or what? Or is this some kind of bizzarro problem just happening to me because I am ready to kill someone.

[nominesine]

The chimpansee theory has popped into my mind more than once, when it comes to BI bug testing and patching procedures  Apart from that. No, you are not alone. I've seen several similar reports in the bug tracker and on the BI forums after the release of patch 1.03. Take a look at Norrins revive script. It's not 100% foolproof yet, if I am correctly informed. But it's working pretty well. And Norrin tends to update his projects pretty often. On top of that he usually improves his work with every update, as opposed to Bohemia's chimp squad

[Goos]

Finally got around to sitting down and getting back to my mission and I was right about it setting the unit to "setCaptive true" and as a result I believe I have finally solved the issue. but have a question.

To test I placed a trigger at the respawn point set to "repeatedly" and activated by "anybody" (for some reason blufor doesn't seem to do anything) with the on activate of "player setCaptive false" and sure enough I get incapacitated hit respawn and run at the enemy to get gunned down as much as I want hurrah!

Anyway as I am still very much a novice I'm curious about one thing. With the trigger code pointing at "player" as the target how exactly will that work in an online game? will it run the code on the player that triggered it? run it on all players every time it is triggered? I need to know whats happening and if a host will end up burning more resources than is realistically required by firing script on more than the one guy that needs it and if so is there an easier way.

As always many thanks guys your guidance is very much apreciated.