You Want Realism ? I got your realism right here :)

[jamie_psx]

The main realism factor in OFP is really how quickly you can get shot dead.

But I think that when modelling cpp files for individual and crew-served weapons in OFP2, BIS should add a 'Reliability' factor, based on real-world statistics.

This is what I mean:

Rifles should jam occasionally;

Bombs and Grenades should sometimes be duds and fail to explode;

Guns should sometimes backfire, wounding the user instead of the target;

Vehicles like tanks and trucks should sometimes breakdown, and become useless;

Aircraft (especially helicopters) should suffer catastrophic mechanical failures;

etc


Naturally better quality weapons should have smaller failure rates (or they can make it user adjustable, depending on a model's age, and terrain it's being used in). (Eg: Mig-21s crash more often than Mig-29s)

Anyone have anymore ideas on how to make the next game more realistic?

[swift88]

i also think that they should give the computer ai's some kind of emotion, so they dont just attack, sometimes falling back if the attacking force is too big

[Messiah]

ermmm, they already do

[jamie_psx]

Yeah, there's the:

unitname AllowFleeing 1.0

or something.

I think 0.0 is "hero" and "1.0" is "coward".

Though I've never been able to figure out how well it works or what it depends on.

[Messiah]

in normal mode, the soldiers will fight till they know the odds are against them.... just try sending 6 squads of east vs 2 west... it will end up the west retreating if they can... as for the allowfleeing... it does indeed work, but slightly unrealistic having the last man left running towards 60 or so enemy  

[ncpiment]

i think that BIS should us e the Karma phisics engine(unreal2) for ofp.

[jamie_psx]

i think that BIS should us e the Karma phisics engine(unreal2) for ofp.

Having never played that game, what's so special about the physics engine?

... as for the allowfleeing... it does indeed work, but slightly unrealistic having the last man left running towards 60 or so enemy  

It's called fighting a rear-guard action.  ;D ;D ;D

[swift88]

is that the engine which viet cong is run on(brilliant game)?

[Pandoz]

two new ideas.

1. Recoiless weapons have the blowback factor...DONT STAND BEHIND THEM! (been suggested MANY TIMES)

2. Guys get emotionally stressed after many days in the field and get mad at officers...maybe they attack friendly units (best example i can think of is the attack on the 101st base in Iraq a while back)!?!

but overall yes jams and malfunctions is a good idea

[jamie_psx]

Just got another idea:

If you stand too close to a tank or artillery gun when it fires, the sound on the game goes out or starts ringing.
You know?
Kinda like your ears start ringing.

This should also happen when an RPG lands close to you.

What d'you guys think?

Well maybe they'll implement that in OFP 3.  ;D

[Pandoz]

hmmm OFP2?? or OFP3...anywho it kinda already does that...its just not really that noticeable...and if it doesnt then i think i go deaf when im near it...or if u want ringing ears just turn ur sound full blast then put on really good earphones...thatll make em ring!

[jamie_psx]

if u want ringing ears just turn ur sound full blast then put on really good earphones...thatll make em ring!

Heh,heh! A wise guy, huh. ;D
If I wanted to get permanent ear damage, I'd take up your suggestion.  

[Gravitybeetle]

Maybe, when you stand too close to a tank when it fires, you die, like in real battles.
(according to my brother)

The soldier and his gun can fly in separate directions when something explodes.

Dying movements like in Unreal Tournament 2003.

[Pandoz]

could we do that...or would we need to redo the animations for all deaths/engine? only way i can think of is as soon as that start flying back take their weapons away and use a create feature to replicate it and the est velocity to launch it opposite direc? or can u even manipulate the dead...hmmm dont interpret that wrong.

permanent ear damage... lol

[Noon416]

This is what I mean:

Rifles should jam occasionally;

Bombs and Grenades should sometimes be duds and fail to explode;

Guns should sometimes backfire, wounding the user instead of the target;

Vehicles like tanks and trucks should sometimes breakdown, and become useless;

Aircraft (especially helicopters) should suffer catastrophic mechanical failures;

I can't see why any of this can't be generated by the use of scripting. I'm not the man to do it, but its definitely doable.

Each item/vehicle in OFP has a damage value from 0 to 1. You'd just have to use a running script to generate a random time event and then cause a failure by upping the damage value (just thinking aloud here).

or if u want ringing ears just turn ur sound full blast then put on really good earphones...thatll make em ring!

Headphones?!
Home theatre systems, mi'lad! 15" Subwoofers!

When an M1A1 lets rip, if...
- the house don't shake
- the cat don't scream out the door
- the neighbours don't call the bomb sqaud
...then you ain't playin. ;D ;D ;D

*wonders why his wife hates OFP*

[jamie_psx]

Yeah but you can't do the SetDammage with vehicles/aircraft, because they change appearance and sometimes even force any Man units out.
A broken down truck is still supposed to look like a normal/undamaged truck.
I guess the SetFuel command might do the trick.

[Noon416]

The setdammage command can be used on pretty much any object in the game, except the weapons a soldier is currently holding.

It works incrementally between 0 and 1, so as you slowly increase the damage value, all objects will starts showing more damage...
- soldiers start showing wounds
- vehicles start losing movement (tyres go flat, etc) and weapon function
- some objects will simply go from healthy to destroyed (houses, etc)

setdammage is the destructive way to implement mechanical failures.
setfuel would be the non-destructive way of doing it as would be well-suited to simulating engine failures of all kinds.


[EDIT]

LOL! Man, I must be a tad too tired, as I've basically just repeated what you said.

Maybe I should try that sleep thing I hear so much about ... *Noon slaps himself upside the head*

Yes, setfuel would probably be the best choice for vehicles. ;D

*Noon goes for a very strong coffee*
[/EDIT]

[Mr_Shady]

I'd like to be able to be wounded but still be able to fight or move to a diminished level of efficiency, and be able to do this to the enemy. Like if I shoot a soldier in the leg, and have him limp off on one leg.

I have to agree that the Karma physics engine fron UT2003 would be great. I remember playing the demo, and I was amazed with the death sequences. If you don't know what Karma is, it makes the dead act in a realistic and unique fashion, going limp and all rag-doll like, so no two deaths look the same. For example, if you headjob someone from 1km away while he's looking the other way, he'll just crumple to the floor. If you get him while he's running, he'll probably take a tumble due to momentum. If you, say, get him with a 40mm HE grenade, he'll be blasted in the air, tumbling with the force and with his limbs flailing. If he dies on a slope, he'll roll down it realistically. Especially good are the falling deaths and seeing someone go down the stairs, arms and legs all over the show when they come to a stop   I'd recommend the UT2003 demo, just so you can see how far you can blast someone with the rocket launcher  ;D

I'd also like to see a bit more blood, but not a Soldier of Fortune II kind of excess, with heads getting split open and arteries spurting, with the poor grunt screaming his head off and writing in agony. I think an entry/exit wound where the round went in/came out would suffice.

And Nicd, I don't think you'd die if you stood next to a tank as it fired. The displacement of air might shove you a bit, and the actual blast would deafen you, if you're not wearing ear defenders. I mean, artillerymen don't die when they fire their guns, and they're using anything from 105mm to 155mm (the biggest common tank guns are 120mm for NATO and 125mm for Eastern Bloc tanks).

Oh, yeah! Better tanks in OFP 2! It'd be great to "track" them with an AT launcher, ie. blowing a track off to immobilize them. Oh, and buildings that blow up realistically, like the walls collapsing or a hole getting punched through! And deformable terrain, so we can blow holes in the ground or use engineering vehicles to dig AT ditches or fill trenches with fascine bundles! And flame-based weapons, like white phos grenades, that you can use to smoke the enemy out with (read: flash-fry him with). And some form of close-combat, like bayonets or fighting knives! And- aaack!

*Kooky gets dragged away by the men in white coats*


NOT THE MEDICINE!! AIIIIIIIEEE!!

[tankieboy]

No you don't die if you stand next to a tank when it fires or I would be dead 1000 times over, lol.

[Yippyfn]

Did anyone mention swimming? Swimming would be awesome. But I think I saw something about that a few weeks ago.

[swift88]

i think there should be alot more support vehicles ie pontoon bridges, bridge layers, and mine clearers  ;D oh if only. also i think there should be a indirect/direct artillary support and close air support option

[Mr_Shady]

Being able to blow bridges realistically, and being able to combat engineer (minesweeping with a detector, engineer vehicles digging and bulldozing, dropping fascine bundles and laying Vehicle Launched Bridges) would rate pretty high in my list. It'd be great for MP, one team defending a town with a bridge in the middle and it rigged to blow, then the other team trying to take the bridge. If the defenders blow the bridge up, the attackers need to use a bridgelayer to cross it  ;D

[Yippyfn]

I agree Kooky, engineering and swimming are my most wanted. Imagine, expecting an attack and being able to build and place fortifications (like Iron Wall, by TakeoffTim).

[jamie_psx]

Another thing we could use would be a "minefield" object.

Instead of individual mines, OFP2 should give the player the opportunity to place a "configurable" minefield just like we can place marker circles,ellipses, and rectangles of different sizes.

So that's it then:
* Minefields
* Indirect Artillery
* Randomized equipment malfunction.

Anything else is just a bonus.  ;D

[Mr_Shady]

Realistic destruction of tanks! It makes me fighting mad when my 60-ton killing machine expodes because some bastard shot my main gun with an AT4  

While I'm talking about tanks, I think there should be full getting in/out animations, and random mechanical faults depending on the vehicle, so if we have an M155 Sheridan, it should have an unreliable main gun, and if we have a Cheiftain Mk 3 it should break down every five yards  ;D

I'd like to see vertical slopes too, which can only be ascended/descended with specialist gear, instead of the 99% gradient slopes in OFP, where it's possible to sprint in bursts up them (when you're prone, hold E, then press Q to get up, and you'll dash up, then get down again).

Sinking boats would be nice, instead of blowing them up. Get a lucky shot against a boat, and it'd penetrate the hull and sink it, without destroying it.


Unfortunately, since OFP2 is a Vietnam game (boo! hiss!  ) all the modern stuff like laser pointers, tac lights, infra-red/thermal imaging/image intensifier goggles will be ignored by BIS, so we'll still have a lot of restrictions.

*goes off to execute random Codemasters and BIS staff until they make OFP2 about the British Army  ;D*

[jamie_psx]

Unfortunately, since OFP2 is a Vietnam game (boo! hiss!  ) all the modern stuff like laser pointers, tac lights, infra-red/thermal imaging/image intensifier goggles will be ignored by BIS, so we'll still have a lot of restrictions.

Yeah, I'm not too crazy about a Vietnam game either.
I think that they should make wars from Falkland Islands/Malvinas to the present.
But if they do make a vietnam game then my initial suggestions are extremely relevant since everyone knows that the M16 jammed even if you only looked at it wrong.  ;D

[delaware]

I agree Kooky, engineering and swimming are my most wanted. Imagine, expecting an attack and being able to build and place fortifications (like Iron Wall, by TakeoffTim).

How about an on-screen sketch pad overlaid onto the map where you can make rough diagrams with your mouse?  You could have user-definable shapes, so in order to place a sandbag wall, you'd simply draw its shape (or choose from a list of names).  You could then draw a line extending from the object that would represent its length.  The AI engineer would then optimize spacing and alignment and create it for you.  If the engineer was human, there could be some way of sending him the sketch in-game.

Add the ability to save, load and scale plans (to meet different size requirements) and you'd have yourself a useful feature.  What do you think?

[swift88]

 i think that idea of the map and sandbags etc would be cool but even better would be a bridge layer   i would love one........... but i also want planes to fly more realistic and not drop the throttle every time u let go i also want a better computer A.I  which prevents the choper pilots from colliding midair etc...........

[Foo]

Headphones?!
Home theatre systems, mi'lad! 15" Subwoofers!

When an M1A1 lets rip, if...
- the house don't shake
- the cat don't scream out the door
- the neighbours don't call the bomb sqaud
...then you ain't playin.  

*wonders why his wife hates OFP*  

Hahaha! ;D

What i want to see is flying limbs! and not just when your dead, imagine crawling round with no legs :-\ Also more realistic deaths, so if a tank fires on you there wont be much left to see.

And, they could build in an ability to have caves without having to model them into the landscape

Proper rivers! (ie not ones that have 2 be at sea level to work.

[rancor_man67]

Hmmmm....

In the heat of combat i think i would be a crapped off if my apache just *broke down* in mid air. How many times have you heard of things breaking down in a battle? Its a good idea though. Jamming guns is diffrent. I think that would be good. You should be able to fix them though. I think that dammageable parts of cars and stuff would be good.

Eg: A shilka blasts your a-10, and one jet catches fire.

When an M1A1 lets rip, if...
- the house don't shake
- the cat don't scream out the door
- the neighbours don't call the bomb sqaud
...then you ain't playin.  

*wonders why his wife hates OFP*  

Hehe!

Try with 2 1200w double subs!!

*Crickey!! Why is my power bill so high??*

Rancor.

[Mav]

parachutes, being able to blast holes in teh things, being caught on power lines, being shot in the air, getting caught in trees.

Raven shield style Death animations, iirc, the same engine as Unreal 2003?

more dynamic building clearance, no jerking about stuck in doors and being abducted by mutated houses.

swimming, yes CoC are handling that one for us, cheers guys

Tanks that can actually drive up hills.

Rifles hardly ever backfire unless you fire them with the muzzle in the water, that just breaks your shoulder.

and agreed planes should rip open when they're hit instead of bouncing backwards and exploding on the ground....


Rant over
Mav

[Mr_Shady]

Being able to vault over low walls, clamber up things, scale chainlink fences and dive on the floor would be great. Right now, if a grenade goes off you're dead before you're even halfway down.

Oh, and leaning up against walls would be great for taking cover. Edging you and your team along just under the enemy's line of sight would be great, before jumping over and raising hell.

Having vehicles (and troops!) getting stuck in mud would be cool to, so you'd have to take the ground conditions into account when driving around. In a truck, you'd have to stick to the roads and solid, even ground, and in an MBT you could offroad pretty much anywhere, but boggy ground would get you stuck. In something with low ground pressure (like a Scorpion CVR(T), which exerts less ground pressure than a man, fact fans!) you could go anywhere.

Proper animations for people falling off buildings or cliffs or getting knocked around by explosions would be really good too, I've done a few Max Paynes when a nade's gone off near me but not killed me, so I've gone flying headfirst to the side, but still in the upright, so I ended up shooting at people with my pistol before hitting the ground and magically going upright again