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Author Topic: Big City Urban Combat  (Read 694 times)

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Seargent Sanderson

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Big City Urban Combat
« on: 31 Mar 2003, 23:41:33 »
 ;D I'm trying to make one like a CSAR (for those that dont kow CSAR is a short for CombaT Search And Rescue)mission. Here's the setup:

Island:Ackropolis
Units:They Ghost Recon people
Vehichles:The Navy HH60

Problem: An American convoy was ambushed and most of the crew was killed except for 3 survivors that are in need of a evac.

My troubles: I have no ideas on how to make an urban population and some resistance with it. The city is big and confusing. It won't be good for the leader to be A.I. so im commander. I know how to join the forces (3 survivors) with my squad, but the urban combat part has gotten me stumped. I can find the rope in script, but other than that, it's confoosing. Any ideas on how to make it better will be appreciated.

             Cheers

Offline macguba

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Re:Big City Urban Combat
« Reply #1 on: 31 Mar 2003, 23:59:42 »
Good idea.    You've given us quite a big problem there.    Can you be more specific?    What exactly has got you stumped?

A few thoughts ....

Sounds to me like you've got to have an extraction point.    You've got to have some radio chat so that you know where the extraction point is.     There will be lots of opposition - small squads of enemy soldiers patrolling the city.     Not much armour though, since you won't be able to destroy it.   Unless you want that to be the mission, avoiding the armour.

You could make it more interesting with an intermediate objective:   say the rescue chopper can't get in till you zap the enemy's AA unit on the hillside.    So you have to kill some bad guys, borrow AT rockets or satchels, zap the Shilka, get to the exfil point and call in the chopper.

If you want to know what not to do, read this tute.
« Last Edit: 01 Apr 2003, 00:00:43 by macguba »
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Seargent Sanderson

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Re:Big City Urban Combat
« Reply #2 on: 01 Apr 2003, 00:07:49 »
What's got me stumped is where to put the civilians and resistance squads in the city. My first idea was to make 3 small squads rushing at the ambush site but when the chopper get's there it just flies in circles shooting the enemy and can't land cause the space is too small so i gave it a nice courtyard big enough and could be landed on for a PLAYER CONTROLLED pilot but not the ai. So im thinking as im typin this to use a 4 man squad and a Littlebird to go with it.

  SO, back to your question. It's the placin of the civilians and resistance and if they should patrol or just stand there. But i don't know how many to put in the squad and if they should go around in trucks. I NEED TO KNOW WHERE TO PUT THE CIVILIANS. And im gonna forget the rope in and do something myself.  Again any help will be appreciated.

 P.S. The crash site is always overrun.

          Cheers

Offline macguba

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Re:Big City Urban Combat
« Reply #3 on: 01 Apr 2003, 00:55:02 »
lol you're facing THE hardest problem in OFP editing, one which is largely overlooked because the average mission maker is barely capable of understanding that it's a serious problem .... where to place the units.

I would suggest that you get the mechanics of the mission sorted out first ... location, where the chopper will actually be able to get in and so on.     The civvies and the enemy can be fitted in later, because you can be relatively flexible about that.

As a general rule, units should never just stand there.  (The occasional sentry being the commonest exception.)   They should always have waypoints.    In general, they should have a switch trigger putting them into different waypoints/behaviour when the enemy is detected or some other appropriate event occurs.

It's a big city.   Some soldiers will be on patrol, some will be in base.   Some of the patrols will have vehicles, some will not.    You could have a 3 phase attack on your position.    Phase 1 - local patrols, no vehicles, light weapons, easily beaten off.   Phase two, disorganised vehicles arriving from around the city, greater numbers but still light weapons.    Phase 3, organised response.    Slow to arrive (so you might be gone) but with light armour, lots of machine guns (NVGs if appropriate) and snipers.

Key thought:   life should be going on as normal in the city before your abrupt arrival.   So create normal life in the city, or at least an OFP representation of it.   Then create the response.

Are the civvies genuinely neutral, predisposed to you, or predisposed to the enemy?   What happens if you shoot one?    Shoot several?   Are they mixed up with the enemy?  Or is it civvies to your north and enemies to your south?    Does detection by a civvy count as detection by the enemy?

Before you are detected it is usually better for the enemy to be in small squads (3 or 4 loons) because that means you can spread them around more.    Once you are detected, it is normally good to have them in larger squads: once a small squad has taken a couple of casualties it is no longer a squad, its just one or two blokes, frequently fleeing.   Consequently, one of the things that happen on detection is that the smaller squads join up into larger ones.

I'm using "detection" as a generic term here, in your case it may be the chopper crashing or some other event.   The important thing is that there is a decisive moment (or several moments) in the behaviour of the enemy AI.

Whatever happens, you will need lots of playtesting to get the balance right.

Since civilians are to an extent cosmetic, you don't want any more than are absolutely necessary.   You also only need them where the player is likely to see/encounter them.     I think there is plenty of scope for variety in a  mission like this:  some run towards you, some away from you, some get into cars and race up and down the street.   Maybe if you shoot too many they get guns and come after you.    Maybe if you get to a "safe house" they will fight on your side.

A point worth considering is good miliary tactics.   For example, if in the real world it would make sense for the player to control a particular piece of ground or line of sight, make sure that it is actually to his advantage in the game.    For example, in one of my missions there tends to be a bunch of enemy AI milling around the main street of a one street town .... looks a bit crap sometimes, but the point is that if the player has the sense to take up a fire postion controlling that street (which he can easily do) he can wipe out a significant chunk of the opposition without any trouble.

But, in the end of the day, all you can do is experiment.    Get your mechanics and principal location sorted out and just try putting loons in different places, doing different things.   You may have to can that whole location and start again somewhere else if it doesn't work.   Experiment, experiment, experiment.

Last point:  plot.    Imagine that its not a mission you are designing, but you are writing a short story.    What happens?   How would you describe it?    Who are your main characters?    Where are they at the start?    How do they relate to each other?    How will they react to the news?   How will they get the news?    How fast will they react to the news?    It sounds basic but you do need a beginning, a middle and an end.   OFP is flexible so you can have several possible ends.   Or even several possible middles.    What ends and middles do you want?   Well that defines your beginning.

If your mission wouldn't make a good short story, it probably won't make a good mission.

I've written all this and still said nothing about placement of units.     Except that, once you have answered all the questions above, plus all the others that you will think of yourself, a lot of the unit placement will become obvious.    I hope.

Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Seargent Sanderson

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Re:Big City Urban Combat
« Reply #4 on: 01 Apr 2003, 02:31:18 »
lol your last paragraph about not answering my q about placing units. Thanks for the answer. I'm gonna ask one more q, whats the switch option in a trigger for. I've seen people writing about it but never understood what it was for.

I read a reply from u answering someone about a radio problem, and your notepad, save file as "text.sqs" was brilliant but i can't use it. I type my text save it as text.sqs, copy it into my mission folder, alt+tab ofp back up and make a trigger but don't know what to do. I'm gonna need radio chat in this urban battle.

Do i put this in the 'on activation' filed;

   [] exec "text.sqs"

I put that, click on preview and wait for the text but it doesn't show up.
Here's my beginning i fininshed today for the urban mission:

 The littlebird is on a steady flight to the crash area.
"HQ THIS IS NOVEMBER 1, ABOUT TO TOUCHDOWN ON TARGET, E.T.A. FOR LANDING 30 SECONDS OVER."

"ROGER THAT NOVEMBER 1."

So the littlebird slows down (no civilians yet) to a hover about 10 feet from the ground and inches its way to the lz. It lands in a narrow street and the squad gets out. And the bird takes off giving an overhead pattern.

"SEARCH AND RESCUE TEAM ON STATION OVER."

And thats when i stoped. I can't get the text to show up so im in a problem. If im getting annoying i understand but this is my first urban mission and been thinking about since i seen the movie BlackHawk Down. I appreciate that your helpin me.

          Cheers

Offline macguba

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Re:Big City Urban Combat
« Reply #5 on: 01 Apr 2003, 11:24:26 »
You're not getting annoying, these are all reasonable questions.

Switch triggers switch a group from one set of waypoints to another.    For example

MOVE
MOVE
CYCLE   <------ synchro switch trigger with this WP
GUARD

Search the forum, I've written about this often.    They are essential if you want a half decent mission,and very easy to use.

You are correct in how to make a script start.    It may be that the problem is that the file is calling itself text.sqs.txt - its a common problem.   Check it.

The command to make the text appear is sideChat.     You can use Papa Bear and November 1 callsigns if yo like - search the FAQ to find out how to do that.


Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play