(Review Completed) [SP/CAMP] Underdogs

[Undeceived]

UNDERDOGS

Version: 1.92 (updated December 15, 2023)
Author: Undeceived
Gametype: SP campaign


Description:
"We were totally excited when we finally got the green light for the job that our contact Manos had told us about. Just a simple burglary - a pile of money waiting for us in return. At that moment we didn't know that this would be the trigger of a terrible nightmare and a wearying run for our lives..."

A story-driven mini-campaign (5 missions, cutscenes, multiple endings) about a group of Altian kids trying to survive the consequences of a deadly coincidence.


Trailers:





Features:

• Story-driven SP mini-campaign (5 missions)
• Civilian style "crime thriller" - take a refreshing break from the daily military duties
• Cutscenes
• Multiple endings
• Many ways to solve certain tasks
• Crafting of certain needed improvised items
• You can adjust the brightness in night missions
• Subtitles available in English, German and Simplified Chinese

Required mods:

• Everything is part of the campaign download

Beta testers:
Clayman, h-, mathias_eichinger, johnnyboy


Changelog:
v. 1.0 (beta)

• First beta release

v. 1.1 (beta)

• Bugs eliminated
  Fixed showstoppers (difficulty way too hard)
  Optimizations
  Video in main menu has the right resolution

v. 1.2 (beta)

• Completely renewed (massively expanded) the 4th mission
  The player can now adjust brightness in dark missions
  Non-skippable cutscenes are now shorter when watching them again
  Bugs eliminated, optimizations, blah blah...

v. 1.3

• More optimizations (nothing big)
  End of beta phase

v. 1.4

• Added Steam Workshop link
  Public release

v. 1.5

• Chinese translation added (Chinese simplified)
  Added new version of Psychobastard's A3 Wounding System
  Bug fixes and optimizations

v. 1.55

• Hotfix for Chinese translation

v. 1.6

• MOCAP Melee and CBA are not required mods anymore
  Added alternative takedown / knockout system and situations
  Chinese translation (Chinese simplified) was expanded

v. 1.7

• Script correction due to a change in the Max Life Pack mod

v. 1.8

• Max Life Pack added to the campaign download (thanks to Maxjoiner for the permission)

v. 1.9

• Lots of bug fixes and optimizations
  Removed Psychobastard’s “A3 Wounding System”, replaced it with “Grimes Simple Revive” by KC Grimes, which was adapted by KingN for “The Forgotten Few”, which was adapted by Undeceived for “Underdogs”

v. 1.92

• Further bugfixing and polishing

Download:
Underdogs @ Steam Workshop

[h-]

So many things, so few hours in a day....

I try to fit this in somewhere too

[Undeceived]

EDIT:

I got some feedback in another forum and I'm making a new version which should be ready in the next days (lots of changes, optimisations and stuff). So please wait for it, before you download and provide feedback. Thanks.

[Undeceived]

Ok, the new version is up now.

I really need more feedback on this! Gameplay and bugs related, but also regarding the English translation.

Thanks a lot!

[h-]

At first didn't get far.
After the intro in the briefing window I press 'continue' and the game CTDs...

Retry -> skipping intro -> continue -> works
Btw, change 'criminality' to 'crime'.

Cutscenes in general:
- I don't really like to say much about these because they're always so clunky and such, just because the game itself is not really cutscene friendly
- Oh how I so hate camSetTarget bouncy cams 

1st mission:
- I would add reconnaissance foto(s) of the warehouse into the briefing because one would assume they'd take some.
- Liked the lock picking feature, although one could make it a bit more like it was in the original Thiefs (the handle would wiggle a lot and once lock was picked it would stay in the open position) so would get some sort of visual info that the lock is picked?
- The minute details on operating the PC were a nice touch 
- No tasks assigned/to assign? Found this odd since the next mission has...
- Way too dark, basically can't see shit outside lit areas. Mileage probably varies here a lot depending on one's ingame and monitor settings..

2nd:
- So dark I have to crank brightness and gamma up to 11 to see anything.
- Impossible to complete, after 10 re-tries got fed up (the save point for this is just annoying, having to watch the same cutscene each retry just gets old)..
- The 'shake them' task gets assigned half a second prior to getting punched in the face and shot.
- This kind of design is really bad for this game, IMO of course , because the atrocious physics and still quite clunky movement (civilians seem to be more clunkier for some reason, limited to the 3 basic stances even??), got shot on several tries because the guy gets stuck on the damn chair or whatever for example, or because you have to point to the absolutely correct pixel to get a door to open, the weird delay the game sometimes has in responding to inputs (might also be just my old 'n' sucky wireless keyboard and the fact that I have to use a thumb trackball mouse), etc...
- Don't really get how this is supposed to work because no matter where I exit the house I get shot?

Story seems interesting up to this point though.

[mathias_eichinger]

Tried the introduction and the first mission this evening.

Cutscenes are clunky, thats true, but I like the story development and the little details like the encounter with police, the lock picking, and the whole gloomy atmosphere, as well as the details as the PC boots up. I won't spoil more details here, but I am already immersed and did not spot any bugs (waypoints did not show up, but I take it the mission has been designed with veteran mode in mind?).

[Undeceived]

First of all, thanks a lot for your time and for trying it out, guys!

What concerns me the most is the CTD after watching the intro. Clayman from assaultmissionstudio.de reports the same, so mathias, did you get that as well? I myself never had one.
I changed some minor things in the respective scripts but no idea if it solved it or where it came from.


h- I know about your passion for camSetTarget bouncy cams - I thought I had avoided them as best as possible, but I'll check it out again. Of course you're right, mate.

What I'm NOT sure about is the difficulty resp. finding a way out of the house when the killers first appear... I already tuned down that part a bit in the current version (I assume you guys are playing v. 1.1?). Ok, using a thumb trackball mouse might make it more difficult - anyway I need more feedback on this. I'll set the beating guy a bit farther away from the door though.

How to escape (SPOILER for h-):
[spoiler]Exit the back door then immediately turn right and behind the house, then run zickzack through the bushes. [/spoiler]


One other problem is the darkness of the missions. I can tune brightness up more, yes, but the problem here is that every monitor is different. I'm thinking of implementing a kind of set up before the intro so that the player can set the right brightness for his PC. But even then the clouds again can change everything. NVGs are a no-go for me in this setting.

I'll adress all other feedback I got from you. Thanks so far!

[mathias_eichinger]

So far, I am only through with the first mission, and I never had a CTD with that one!

[h-]

How to escape (SPOILER for h-):

Since this is the first time I have ever been in this house how would I know which door is which

The whole thing might boil down to me just sucking, nowadays it is nigh impossible for me to play anything that is too fast paced. And I haven't really played the game in like 1.5 years (side-effect of modding).

What concerns me the most is the CTD after watching the intro

It happened right after pressing 'Continue', I'm assuming when the mission intro cutscene should start playing (the one in which the guys sit around and the priest comes in).

IIRC it was STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION which is sooo helpful in deciphering what caused it (BIS and their horrid error handling). It can, in my personal experience, point towards something going awry with some scripting but usually that happens only with 3DEN commands because those have like zero error handling, some of them CTD the game with incorrect param type passed or if a object is assumed and objNull is passed..

It could be one of the mods that does it though?

I know about your passion for camSetTarget bouncy cams

I simply can not fathom why BIS has made it so that when using that command the camera a) points to the center mass of the unit (because actor's face is what you would obviously aim at) and b) why it then follows the up/down movements of the center mass.. 

[Undeceived]

Since this is the first time I have ever been in this house how would I know which door is which

Sorry! After leaving the room where the uncle lies go straight (don't take the exit door on the right), then follow the corridor  to the left and arrive at the back door.


Thanks for your memories on the CTD. Would be great to know though if it still happened in the intro mission (exactly when pressing Continue after the Introduction briefing) or while loading the intro of the first mission (Trespassers).
Yeah, it could be caused by a mod... That would be the worst case.


Good luck!



Edit:
Ok, if it didn't crash when skipping the "intro of the Introduction mission", I assume it happens when loading the "mission section of the Introduction mission".

[h-]

Well, still can't get more than couple of meters from the house (can't even reach the mentioned bushes) until I'm peppered by three guys so dunno how any zig-zagging would even help (if it was even possible with this clunky-fest).
So, ENDMISSION.

Next one took a few tries to get the speed right, the dudes the chopper brings in seem to be indestructible so getting out before they arrive requires basically a SAS killhouse speed..

Really like the attention to detail you've put in this, the police station is really believably set up; and the sounds when collecting the documents = pure gold.

Some minor typo/grammar stuff:
- change weared to wore
- the Police station is in German when playing the mission, in the briefing before the mission it's in English
- in the mission following the police station one (I guess it's called Manos) in the briefing change a sentence that says 'the sun had rised' to 'the sun had risen'

EDIT:
- Some of the markers in the mission Manos briefing are in German
- also the waypoint is visible line on the map
[spoiler]The "sniper" can kill the player immediately after the cutscene ends, and I mean immediately after (as in you don't even get a chance to even try to move).
It also seems to detect you through buildings and walls (which are hidden behind several layers of trees), and why it sometimes shoots at Costa (or whomever, I have no idea who is who) and sometimes not? Or does he just get hit by a ricochet?
Not really a fan of the idea having to babysit an AI because you can't order them to sprint or anything, they just retard away behind you and then you reward the player by forcing him to drag the moron when the "sniper" suddenly decides he's worth a shot too.. Getting to the guy is then usually impossible because you just die.

EDIT:
Didn't even understand why I had to find the guy and bring him with.
Took me probably at least 2 hours (in real life time) to finally find the smokes, then it took countless tries to get the smoke just right so that won't get shot and finally got to the dude, selected the pull action (should be named drag) and I couldn't move, all I can do is spin around but the guy won't move from any key...   

EDIT2:
Oh, so I have to put my weapon away first to be able to drag. Peculiar.
The drag to safety task completes even though I didn't reach behind the shack but went too far and got stuck on the railing thingy of the other house nearby but I guess git inside some trigger just enough..

The guy with the blue shirt disappears somehwere in the very beginning of the surprise attack, he reappears in the cutscene after Manos is dragged to safety.
He can also appear as Alpha X:X-somethingsomething and not with his name in the discussions after the Manos getting shot cutscene.
[/spoiler]

[Undeceived]

Good feedback, thanks a lot.

I fixed most of the points now but I don't know what's happening at some certain other parts you mentioned:

• You say the one with the blue shirt (Elias) disappeared after the surprise attack. Are you 100% sure that he wasn't behind the crates? This is where he crawls as the sniper starts shooting.
• Dragging Manos - this should work in all cases - with a rifle, with a pistol and unarmed - I tested it just now... You're not using other mods apart from the required ones, are you?
• And yeah - that ominous CTD you mentioned before (see my other post)

The Manos mission will be completely overhauled in the next version. While at the moment there is only one way to save Manos, the player will now have five or six. It will need some testing though.

On that part where you flee from the house (2nd mission): I repositioned the guy that's standing at the back door. He's now a bit farther away from the door which should make it a bit easier to run. I'll also plant some more bushes in the back of the house and maybe the uncle has left some stuff there too where the player can hide behind.

Thanks, h-

[h-]

the player will now have five or six.

I assume that one of those is setting the tire heap on fire?   

You say the one with the blue shirt (Elias) disappeared after the surprise attack. Are you 100% sure that he wasn't behind the crates? This is where he crawls as the sniper starts shooting.

He was nowhere to be seen, I actually ran around there at some point when searching the smokes (I think the crates were actually destroyed by me with the car in the beginning or the sniper shot them to pieces).
I saw him hiding behind the crates/the wall but at some point, probably when I left looking for the other guy I didn't see him anywhere until the cutscene after saving Manos..

Dragging Manos - this should work in all cases - with a rifle, with a pistol and unarmed - I tested it just now... You're not using other mods apart from the required ones, are you?

The only extra mod I had running was 3DEN Enhanced and that can't interfere with anything outside the editor.
I was only able to drag the guy until I first put the rifle back in the backpack and then started dragging.
I tried this several times. Weird.
Although I guess it could make sense, somehow when people are unconscious and completely jointless it's close to impossible to move them (it's like 60kg becomes 160..).

[Undeceived]

I assume that one of those is setting the tire heap on fire?   

Hehe, no. What good would it do to burn the heap? I mean... You would have to carry the tires on the street so that the smoke blocks the sniper's view. The sniper would be grateful as he can accomplish his job and go home drink a beer.

However I'm still open for ideas. If you play and then think "Ok, that should be a possible way!" then let me know.

Yeah, that's weird indeed (dragging Manos). I will need some more feedback on this as I have no clue.

[h-]

What good would it do to burn the heap?

Tires smoke like crazy when you burn them, but obviously it would depend on the wind whether it would help or not.