Project : UK Forces

[Bibmi]

I really shouldn't let this wander off topic...but just to clarify a few things...


The assualt on the Iranian embassy lasted 17 minutes, and inspite of the fact that a single SAS assaulter got tangled up in his harness it was a mitigating, public success. Of the six terroists, five were killed and one taken prisoner (great restraint shown on the part of the SAS - they are not a police force after all) without a single casualty on the SAS side. The fires were caused by the flashbangs - think of all the paper work in an embassy - not "set" by the SAS.

After the latest hostage crisis fiasco in Moscow and other incidents such as the hostage scenario in Munich (which prompted the SAS to start training CQB operatives), the SAS assault on the Iranian Embassy should be held up as textbook case of how to get the job done.

As for the Rm addon...we will hopefully be releasing a "teaser" of the RMs, but not the full addon. Consider this a beta for the the full version of the RMs, Paras and Rafreg addons that will be released shortly after I return from my vacation. In the meantime...all you other addon makers get cracking on some vehicles and aircraft for British forces, and I'll have the crews waiting...seeya all in a month  

[Messiah]

*sits down and shuts up*

granted, when u compare it to the moscow incident it id deffinatly a textbook operation - hence why the SAS train virtually all spec ops over the world (yes, even the US  ;D )

but as for their first assult, it wasnt their best - as they have kicked ass in much better ways  ;D

screamingeagle - no worries then, i just got the wrong end of the stick.

bibs - cant bloody wait old chap  

[screamingeagle_101]

No hard feelings.

[Ferret Fangs]

I think the US trains it's own SPECFOR operators quite well, thanks. We of course, do take a look at other examples of what not to do...
In truth our Delta did base it's hostage rescue operations on the early SAS concepts but I think Delta and the SAS have both expanded on those capabilities quite a bit since. And of course, there is more information and technique sharing going on between these forces then most on this forum will ever know...
On the other hand, our Navy's DEVGRU developed it's own unique terrorist take-down skills with very little foreign assistance or cross-decking. I think their focus is based more on killing large numbers of tango's in direct action, and offensive terrorist-like strikes as opposed to hostage rescue. The have however, done a bang-up job of diplomatic security in Afghanistan to date... they havn't lost the Afghan President Hamid Karzai yet, despite several well orchestrated attacks in very hostile, target-rich, enviroment.
Oh, and by the way, Mogadishu wasn't a cock-up by the D-Boys, or the Rangers either... they operated flawlessly under the parameters and orders issued to them from CENTCOM, ( in Florida, thousands of miles away... ) they did succeed in capturing quite a few of the key Somali targets and killing dozens more. Considering that TF Ranger lost less than twenty, while killing as many as 2000 on that day, fighting their way into, and out of, an extremely dangerous city literally surrounded by combattants was nothing less than amazing. I'd give equal odds that any other similar-sized force in that situation may have faired much worse, if not being completely wiped out to the last man. Say what you will, but they ate hundreds of times more of the enemies flesh than they lost that day.

[Mr_Shady]

Right, to make sure this doesn't turn into a "my army's better than yours" flame war, I'll make one final point:


THE GURKHAS CAN HAVE ANYONE


So there.

Which weapons are coming with these packs Bibmi? Personally I think that using the FN MAG that someone made not so long ago as well as the ADF mod's Brownings would save some time. That is, if they let you use them.

[Ferret Fangs]

I must admit, the Gurkhas can certainly hold their own. They are looked upon with admiration by all of the Americans that know of them, particularly the USMC.
I'd lay odds the US-trained ROK SEAL's are just as vicious, though. Of all the various military forces in the Viet Nam conflict, none were as brutal as the ROK Marines... They actually had to be excluded from operations because of their unwillingness to take prisoners, or to retreat even when vastly out-numbered.

[Britboy]

Hehe, don't know whether you can call 'not realising he was a terrorist' restraint

But anyways, good luck with addons Bibmi.

[PunkerSXDX]

It's a lot easyer to deal with a Marter that a Prisoner, so not killing the terrorist is not really restraint, but more... humanity, and the US and UK paved the way for Modern CT tactics, and the CIA actually did a lot more training of the 1SFOD-D (later the CIA Screwed them over A LOT!) than the SAS read Inside Delta Force by CSM Eric L. Haney (Ret.) it talks a lot about the Delta Force mostly, but has a lot of infor mation on CT tactics used world wide by all Armys.

[screamingeagle_101]

Right, to make sure this doesn't turn into a "my army's better than yours" flame war, I'll make one final point:

Yes lets stop this flame war (sarcasm)

OK guys let's stop it NOW!
We don't want this thread locked, I don't want this thread locked.
And kooky how are you going to stop this flame war by stirring it up more?

[Ferret Fangs]

 ???Hey, I didn't flame anyone. I didn't see flames anywhwere... except that guy with the turbin and beard trying to burn a US flag with lighter fluid, catching his towel on fire and going up like a Roman candle... ;D

But seriously folks, I was just stating some simple facts, no malice intended towards anybody else's armed forces. You don't have to claim: "My SF guys OWNS everybody elses SF dudes!" because of course, everybody here is a fricken expert, and has served with them, right? The REAL meat-eaters just know.
Can't people just lighten up, and try to understand one another without insulting each other over something completely ridiculous? Pride and patriotism are easy things for arm-chair generals to espouse, history bears out the burden of proof.

The Mogadishu thing was my opinion... I don't think we should pick on those boys for what the government and Clinton administration fouled up. They fought bravely, completed their mission to the best of their ability, and those that died- died with honor.
We call it the "Utimate Sacrifice", and award our highest honor to those that make such a sacrifice. Several of those men recieved the Medal of Honor, and have become legends in their own right.
Brave souls lads, brave souls.

[screamingeagle_101]

I hate the media becuase of what they said about Mogadishu. In fact they didn't say much on it.
They wrote small articles like "5 US Soldiers died in Somalia". People read and forgot like it was nothing. When the book Black Hawk Down was released was it really known.

The media don't report anything anymore, who's interested that David Beckham has had another baby and it's got a crap name. I hate celebrities always stealing the spotlight, people all around the world are fighting and dying for multiple causes and they just get pushed aside.

Reminds me of a news report that the army didn't have enough boots to go around.

Personally I would rather die then become a celebrity or someone famous.

[Ferret Fangs]

Yeah the media didn't do the best job of reporting what was going on in Somalia, although I think it had something to do with operational security or some such bollocky reasoning. Well Delta was there, so OPSEC should have come into play. But once those video images of dead US troops being dragged naked in the streets hit the air, interest in the story certainly picked up here in the States. The Clinton administration felt like it was an embarassment, ( And rightly so, TF Ranger had been neglected of the support assets that could have made a huge difference. ) and only proved that the administration was more than willing to sacrifice US soldiers for the UN, and short-sighted leftist mealy-mouthed liberal idealistic foreign policy. I think Bush Sr. or "W" would have leveled the entire city, returned pilot or not.
I really despise the fact so many innocent non-combattants were killed in the incident. So many lives could have been spared had CENTCOM chosen to wait and do the assault at night instead. They certainly couldn't have shot down two Blackhawks, with RPG's. The Sammie militia didn't have any ability to effectively fight at night, and most of the civilians would have stayed away from the operation and in their homes. As it was they strayed into the fight, or were pressed into service by the militia, ( "There are Rangers in the market, go and kill them!" ) and keyed up American soldiers armed to the teeth just mowed them down. Had I been there, I'd have certainly done the same thing, and looked for more ammo to keep killing more of them. I'm not a bloodthirsty monster or anything ( I'm actually a Buddhist... ) but in that enviroment, the trigger finger operates on autopilot, and a person carrying anthing in their hands, running anywhere in my line of sight is a tango waiting to be cut down like tall grass. Civil wars are not matters for US troops to interfere in, we specialize in killing EVERYTHING.

[Stu35]

Hehe, don't know whether you can call 'not realising he was a terrorist' restraint

They realised just as he got in front of the cameras, a quick discussion was held over wether they could get away with shooting him on international television, apparently most of them were all for it but then he was put inside a van so they lost the oppertunity. (or something like that).

[Jonno]

ok guys, enough debating, stick to the topic, which is Bibmi's UK Forces Project, believe it or not  

Cheers

[Ferret Fangs]

Oh Yeahhhhhh.