Setting Main Gun Elevation for non-AI crew

[nEO iNC]

I've been trying to figure out a way of setting the angle the main gun is at for non AI crew.

I can find the angle a barrel is at and can get an AI crewman to aim at an adjusted point in space by using a 'dowatch' command. This is pretty stable and gives consistant results, but this is no use for 'live' players as they don't automatically know where the 'invisible' aimpoint is.

Looking at the comref there only seems to be a way of getting the weapon direction, not setting it.

I could use a 'doTarget' command as a guide to the right aimpoint for the player, but really I was looking for something that would give the same consistant/repeatable results as the AI crew method...

Any & all ideas appreciated.

[Spooner]

Showing the player where to aim using just doTarget wouldn't work if waypoints were hidden in the mission/server, so that isn't a terribly consistent either. It is indeed a shame that one cannot set the angle manually, but it possible that someone else knows of a "hack" method of actually moving the gun.

I'd suggest overlaying (using a non-modal dialog) a mark on the screen at the position you'd like the player to aim the gun. I've used this technique to overlay information on a laser designator in SPON Rangefinder, but lots of other people have done similar things. Your solution would presumable resemble NeverWonderDog's tank fire control system , which displays a leading sight for aiming at moving targets), though that may be achieved using a different technique since it is an addon, not a script.

If you could give more information as to what system you are developing that requires a player-operated gun to be moved automatically, we might be able to give better suggestions as to how to solve the problem.

[nEO iNC]

Hey Spooner,

OK, the idea I'm working on is an artillery fire direction center dialogue.

The way I see it working is as follows;

An observer relays a grid for a target to the artillery, the artillery then plug this grid into the FDC dialogue via co-ords or map and gets a course firing solution for the target, elevation, azimuth etc.

What I then need is a mechanism for this firing solution to be input into the artillery piece by a more precise method than mouse pointer adjustment. i.e, within a dialogue to 'set' angle of elevation and azimuth to target. I need this so that the FO can adjust fire by spotting rounds and getting the artillery team to correct with fine adjustments to both inputs.

The whole aim, no pun, is to make the FO and artillery roles more immersive, not just a matter of clicking and killing...

Sound reasonable..? 

[Spooner]

This sort of system already exists as Real Artillery 1.1, but that doesn't mean you can't make a better/different version. Still, the way o3oDeath achieves it is to show the gunner accurate azimuth and elevation values (like in my range-finder) and expects the player to use the mouse to point in the required direction. Anyway, something to look at in case you haven't already seen it. He/she also chose to implement the artillery as an addon, but I'm sure it could be scripted as a pure mission script without a lot of problems, which would make it easier to use, since the player wouldn't need to install the addon just to play the mission.

Bear in mind, as well, that if the gunner operation is entirely automated and making all the fire control calculations for you, you might as well use an AI gunner, which makes automatic moving the gun possible, that is controlled by the spotter rather than an actual person .

Some food for thought, anyway...

[trooper543]

Hi there all

Sorry Gents, i dont mean to hijack this thread.

I would very much like to encourage this development by nEO iNC

Having played in a MP test with o3oDeath's Real Artillery 1.1, we found it fantastic execept for having to work out the solutions for each different target area. it would be fantastic if this could be improved on. As it reall adds a new dimension in multi player games (and our mod is very intrested in the approach) and would very much like to see this become a reality.

By having player controlled artillery it adds more to the whole team work effort in Co op games etc, it is sad that Bis did not do more with the artillery but it is also understandable considering all the work that has gone in to the making of arma.

In our tests we found the only fraustrion was working out the right direction to fire in as this took quite a bit of time to work out and felt this was the only down side to it. The only other fraustration was that if  there was only 1 player controlling a troop of guns (4 guns) there was no other way relaying the co ordinates to the AI guns.

Here are a few suggestions that would hopefully be considered as well as encourage the development of this

Spotter -

1. to allow the spotter to relay pre designated strike points that can be stored by the artillery player ( this then allows artillery player to determine which request has priority etc)
2. to allow the ai spotter to send in requests based on type of target and level of threat


Artillery

1. to allow the artiley player to be able to receive predesignated strike points and fire requests from different spotters etc
2. to allow the artillery player to relay gun elavation and direction to AI guns within the troop/battery (this is after firing a spot round)
3. the player must still work out the charge strength to hit the target (i.e just like reall Artilery Charge 1 - xxx distance) as this allows a degree of realism and allows for the spotter to adjust fire
4. the ability to fire different types of rounds ( smoke, illum etc)

i really think that if this is acheived it would certainly give mission designers as well gamers (Clans) a whole new way of using artillery more effective and enjoyable within SP and MP games

I hope that this provides encouragement

If someone does take this challenge up we would be very much intrested in using this for our artillery addon.


 

[nEO iNC]

Hey, Spooner/trooper543,

Thanks for the input guys... 

Spooner, I take your point about 'automation' and it pretty much being the same as an AI player using the artillery...

But the idea of the player having to input elevation and azimuth by mouse pointer isn't very good.

At 10km range the slightest deviation from the firing solution could mean a wasted fire-mission, or worse still friendly fire...

DANGER CLOS... BANG! 

The accuracy of the input is crucial for the system to be useful/usable.

The challenge here for the artillery guys, rather than just plugging in numbers, is to figure out what they need to do given the course solution and adjustments by the FO to zero in on target.

I would hope to implement a sliding scale for deviation (m) per degree of change in elevation and azimuth for a given range. This could then be used by the artillery to do a bit of simple math to achieve a hit.

eg. up 50, left 10, 10m @ 1.2km = x degrees elevation, y degrees azimuth. Therefore add 5*x for elevation and subtract y for azimuth.

trooper543, The reason I thought of this was as you say to promote team work. I want to try and make the role of artillery more important but without making it too easy. It was actually the Real Artillery addon that got me thinking about this...

The FDC I think would make team work between FOs and artillery very important, without being too clunky to be fun... Although, I guess that depends on what you find fun..? 

I just remember how good the COC artillery and WGL mortar systems were for OFP and kinda miss it... Yeah, the COC system was AI manned, but it was very powerful... The WGL system was player/time intensive, but was very satifying when you finally got a round to hit on target after adjusting fire. Both rewarded players spending time with the interface and getting good at observing and adjusting fires.

Maybe this is a bit geeky, but hell, isn't that why we play a simulator..? 

Anyway, I'm gonna be offline for the next couple of days, but keep the input coming... All good stuff...

[trooper543]

Hi nEO iNC

I think that part of the fun is being able to work out the correct charge so as not to drop the shells on your  own side

I agree with what you say about the slighest deviation being a wasted firing solution. But also leaving the player to work out the total firing solution could be the downfall of the system as some players wont want to work itout for themselves

I like your concept of the sliding scale and i agree artillery should be more important with out being too easy hopefully there will be some break through on this as i would certainly like to get rid of onmapclick artillery in mp games and  have a player in charge of a battery of guns or a mortar platoon instead of the what is in place, it would certainly benefit the teamwork element  as it would take the whole artilery support fire thing to a new element.

Particualry where you have a battery getting numerous requests from the different teams, it really places the emphasis on the Artillery player to priortise his/her targets based on the info that is provided by the FO's

This can only make the whole game simualtion a lot better especially when you could have 2 battries of guns and 3 mortar batteries and maybe an MRLS setup and each type is controlled by a player the spin in teamwork is would be unbeleivable as the whole side would then have to consider in looking after its support fire elements - particulary when you have mp clan vs clan battles everyone has a role to play

i too found Real Artillery an inspiration but alas i am no scripter

***********BUMP************************************************

Is this still going ?

just wondering if this had been taken any further