Small Arms Damage Values

[rfountain]

Hi,

I was increasingly noticing that the official FN FAL and the G3A4, both 7.62mm battle rifles, do not perform well in combat, both in damage and range, compared to other rifles.

I did an informal test by shooting the legs out of a AI target, poor sod, and found the following to be the trend:

Note:  All Weapons from the official game and all west weapons so far.

One shot kill*:
AUG
G36

Two shot kill*:
M21
M16
M60

Three shot kill*:
HK
Handguns
G3A4
FN FAL

*All shots taken at close range on a target in the legs.

The Question:

How does this game figure damage?  Is there a formal set formula for converting real life ballistics into range and damage performance?  If so or not, how is that factored into the game for both official and non-official addons?  And finally, is there a way regular users can view the configuration of non-official addons for accuracy in that area?


Thanks Great and Powerful Keepers of the Addon Wisdom  ;D

Robert

[CrunchyFrog]

Well, the dammage of the bullet can be set via a command in the CFGammo part:

hit=XXX; (default 9)

And finally, is there a way regular users can view the configuration of non-official addons for accuracy in that area?

yeah, just dePBO the addon PBO, and open the config.cpp with notepad and take a look in the cfgammo part.

[rfountain]

Does anyone know how BIS came to figure out weapons damage.  Is there a formula that converts ballistic data to a damage value?


The 7.62mm Battle Rifles sure seem weak in the performance.  Any insight or ideas?

[Uziyahu]

Well, as the team at B.I. has confessed, they're not "military nuts", so for v1.00 I described to them how many hits and what kinds of hits a certain weapon would have to do to kill a man.

For example, I said that 1 .50 round to any part of a man might as well kill him, as I've heard that the shockwave can cause the blood to have a hydraulic effect and do fatal damage to the brain because of the instant pressure.  I described a 9mm MP5SD needing 2 shots to the torso to kill.  Then I simply outlined the relationship between the weapons that would be offered in v1.00.  Surprisingly, such a simple system worked splendidly.  (What is it, values 0 - 9?  I'm not sure.)

The weapons added later on is where it starts to get ugly.  : (

You're absolutely correct that some standardization needs to be taking place.  A Russian sniper rifle was just user-made that can kill a Jeep Tahoe and its driver with one explosive shot.

I was planning on working on this.  I have a list of pistol ammunition stats, if you have the same for rifles.

The FN FAL *DID* seem very weak.  Maybe they thought it fired 7.62mm pistol ammo?

This is the kind of stupid hooey that happens when designers start bowing at the altar of "game balance", which is pure idiocy in a sim.

[rfountain]

I have both pistol and rifle ballistic stats as well as several links to web sites that offer these stats online.

That was one of my main concerns regarding this game... I see no use to introduce a weapon such as a FAL or G3, both 7.62mm NATO, that behave like a 9mms.  I figured that since there is a value range in the game for damage, 0-9 I guess, there would have been some formal way of determining how powerful or weak each caliber/weapon is in the game.

How does then a mod maker, making a smallarm, rate his weapon then.  Is it based on a guess, his personal love for that type of weapon, or some standard that the game designers used to figure weapon damages.

There are some great looking add-ons out there, and when you download them and use them one assumes that in the OFP world it would perform as much as possible to its real world counter part.  If they don't then they might as well be fictional made up weapons. :-\

I'm just saying that if it looks like a duck it should quack like a duck.

Anyone have any ideas, suggestions, or answers regarding this issue?

[PFC_Mike]

I agree.
I don't like it, so I'm changing the cpp.
I don't play multiplayer so it doesn't matter.

[DaCoroner]

Well, this "ballistics" argument has been going on in the real world as long as there have been guns and in the virtual world as long as there have been simulations, so... I wish you luck in finding any sort of standard.  

A few things from the real world:

Calibre is not really *THE* determining factor in how much damage a weapon will do.  In reality it's like arguing over whether you'll be hurt more if run over by a bus or a cement truck.  A quick look at history shows that the military finally realized that larger rifle cartridges, such as the 7.62mm, tend to punch nice clean holes in the target while a 5.56mm slug usually gets inside them and bounces around.

In urban combat training one of the things you learn is that a 9mm round fired from a pistol will penetrate through more soft cover (wood, plaster walls, furniture, etc) than a 5.56mm round fired from a carbine, a 12ga slug fired from a standard shotgun, or a .44 mag round fired from an extended barrel revolver.  On the flip side, 5.56mm rounds can slice through metal plates that the 9mm bounces off.  So much for standard penetration statistics...

I guess I'm just trying to say don't sweat the small stuff, you'll never please everybody, just try to keep it reasonable (whatever that is).  And whatever you do, avoid becomming a "stat monger" with ballistics information, especially if it's provided by a person who has personal preferences, opinions, and bills to pay (definately avoid anyone who says they have no opinion)... if you want some real ballistics stats, go to the nearest big city trauma center or morgue and talk to them, that way you can hear about the people who live through headshots from 30-06 hunting rifles and those who die from a .22 pistol round to the arm.

Personally, anything that performs at par (or close) to the original weapons and won't kill a Tahoe and the driver in one shot is fine with me.  If you don't like having to shoot someone 3 times in the legs with the FN FAL, shoot them in the head next time.  I think I even like having to hit someone several times if I screw up, it just makes it that much more gratifying when I do manage to kill that running soldier 200m away with a single shot.

Ok, I'll shut up now