Realistic Air Combat

[Plane]

Well,it's a long time until the OFPEC finally come to life!
It's everyone's habit to test newly released addons,but every time I play MP mission it seemed that the air fight is never realistic.
1.The missile rarely(maybe say never) hit enemy planes,cause very plane has a missile deflecting system.
2.The missile passes the enemy plane within 5 meters but never explode, only if direct hit!
3.Too powerful radar, can lock enemy targets behide you.(Never happens in Lock On)
4.And the SAM system have the radar on the launching car.In fact its separated.

So everyone has the same feelings please reply. Adding on the ways to solve it always welcome!

[greg147]

Yeah, I'd agree with you on them. I for one hate the missile detection systems put in mods etc. It may be realistic, but because of it air to air missiles are useless and the AA soldiers are no use at all. When I first got the newest ECP version, I had a go at flying a cobra over 24 enemy AA soldiers, and not one of them hit me.  

It would be good to have AA missiles explode on proximity, but I'm not sure its possible. Stingers have proximity charges, so when they get close to the target, they explode, and riddle the planes underwing with shards of metal etc, which would be good if it got put ingame.

[Kyle Sarnik]

Yeah, I'd agree with you on them. I for one hate the missile detection systems put in mods etc. It may be realistic, but because of it air to air missiles are useless and the AA soldiers are no use at all. When I first got the newest ECP version, I had a go at flying a cobra over 24 enemy AA soldiers, and not one of them hit me.  

It would be good to have AA missiles explode on proximity, but I'm not sure its possible. Stingers have proximity charges, so when they get close to the target, they explode, and riddle the planes underwing with shards of metal etc, which would be good if it got put ingame.

I'm working on AA missiles, they are a pain but somebodies gotta do it. To respond to plane:

1. Yes to be honest planes don't even really need to spoof missiles since they can hardly hit you in the first place, however if proximity fuses work, thats another story.

2. The OFP engine doesn't allow for proximity fuses to be added to munitions, so they have to be scripted, and are extremely hard to make.

3. There is a difference between picking up things on radar and actualy being locked on to them. In OFP, a lock-on is determined by the diamond shaped cursor over the square that follows your target, when the diamond becomes solid, you have a lock, if its a bit faded, then there is less of a chance you will hit your target.

4. Well, c'mon, have you ever seen a game where this is even possible? Its simply impractical in games, and not really possible to do, because you can't link the launch vehicle (or the missile itself) to another unit's radar.

[Fragorl]

To address 1.) and 2.) - If you're after an aircraft that has halfway decent air-to-air missiles then the AMRAAM missiles on the  RAD_F18 hornet seldom if ever miss. I also believe that it has some sort of proximity fuse on it's missiles (I cant verify that by checking the scripts for it right now, but you can always test it yourself). Sounds like it's worth checking out for you

[UNN]

Footmunch wrote some proximity fuse sctipts, using the onmissilelock event.

RKSL Studios are working on SAM launchers - Fire Control Radars - Search Radars

Rapier FSC - Blindfire - Dagger
Aspide - Skyguard
Oerlikon GDF-005 35mm AAA
SA-2 "Guideline" - Fansong E - SPOON REST
SA-4 "Ganef" - PAT HAND - LONG TRACK
SA-5 "Gammon" - SQUARE PAIR - BAR LOCK
SA-6 "Guideline" - STRAIGHT FLUSH - LONG TRACK

Project updates can be found here:

RKSL Studios

[Kyle Sarnik]

Footmunch wrote some proximity fuse sctipts, using the onmissilelock event.

Yes but those proximity fuse scripts are useless unless every single aircraft in the mission is given the EH, and the RAD proximity fuse scripts aren't very reliable (nearestobject is tricky, unreliable command). I did have an idea about a good way to simulate a proximity fuse, but couldn't get around a few problems.

[penguinman]

I like the ECP anti missle system, but what i would like to see is if it makes the missile miss a plane, the missile will turn around and come in for another go at the plane. would make it more dificult

[Kyle Sarnik]

I like the ECP anti missle system, but what i would like to see is if it makes the missile miss a plane, the missile will turn around and come in for another go at the plane. would make it more dificult

That seems kind of unrealistic, as far as I know if a missile does miss, it means that the seeker head is no longer facing the target, which would result in losing its lock. And I'm not sure what most missiles are programmed to do if they lose their targets, weather they just shut down or self destruct, I don't really know...

[penguinman]

well, really the only modern Air to Air missile that uses heat seaking is the sidewinder. the rest, mostly are radar guided.

And Stinger missiles are able to turn and come back because they are so manuverable and are programed to turn 180* squared if they lose a heat lock and that usualy lets them regain it. same with the soviet version of the sholder fired missile.


I think you shold make a chance thing.


like a 50% chance that it will turn and regain lock, and a 50% chance they will turn but not regain it and spin  out of control, and do loops and twist until the fuel runs out where they explode or fall to the ground.  


i dont know, but i think it would make most people twist in their seat with excitement if they saw the missile they just dodged turned around and was zooming back at them.

[UNN]

How about a missile that turns around and targets the aircraft that fired it

Test Video (1.7 mb mpg)

But as you can see they don't really last that long in OFP, anyway. Unless it was close range?

I forgot to add, in OFP if the missile passes by it's target. It looses it's lock, and flies off in a straight line.

[Ade]

Penguinman forgot the UK ASRAAM (Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile)  which has replaced Sidewinder in UK service (I think the Aussies bought it as well) and German Iris-T.  Like the Russian R73, which I think is the one in that excellent vid that UNN posted, they can be slaved to a helmet-mounted sight that lets it hit targets that are way off-boresight.   The AIM-9X is due in US service soon, and then there's South Africa's A-Darter project iirc.

ASRAAM also has Lock-On After Launch ability ie it can find a target after being fired, which I suspect would be impossible ot simulate in OFP.

Modern IR guided missiles have an imaging infrared seeker linked to a microprocessor, which allows the missile to ascertain that whatever it is following is shaped like an aircraft, has the right thermal signature etc.  This makes them extremely hard to spoof with flares as unlike early missiles, they are not just aiming for the nearest hot spot.

Ade

[Plane]

Great Thanks guys,it's long time until I come back!
I've been thinking about my questions for a long time,and I finally realize the OFP CAN DO EVERYTHING! ;D
It seems that it may be difficult to do but it really has a way!

How about a missile that turns around and targets the aircraft that fired it

I've seen the film "Behind Enemy Lines",the SA-8 which shot down F-18 can track the target by its radar and infered seeker,the missile turn back and track again!
For doing this in OFP, the only thing is to find the plane which the missile is tracking,after that everyting may be easy. Can anyone give me a example?

The closing in detonate just need to get the distance to the target plane,then make a midair explode. But also need to get the target plane.

I know the radar searching system can be defined in config.cpp, just don't know how to define it.

Right now I'm woking on the problem 1 and 2, hopefully it works!

[Kyle Sarnik]

and I finally realize the OFP CAN DO EVERYTHING! ;D

Oh boy, you are overexaggerating. Trust me, addon makers very often get frustrated with OFP, and there comes a point when you realize the limitations. OFP is like a living creature, if you ask too much from it then it gives you crap, and if you are patient, it opens new oppertunities.

But we do realize it can only go so far without modifying the game engine. And there are a lot of things that I (and many others) wish were included in OFP (like a getTarget command, set/getPitch, set/getBank, to name a few).

Think of it like this, if it were that simple, it would have been done allready.

We simply cannot find the target vehicle, nor figure out how to increase the lifetime of missiles. And we certianly can't manualy guide missiles nor force them to go where we want them to.

Oh how we long for thee, ArmA and Game 2.  :-\

[crave22]

Hopefully ArmA and G2 are easier to mod and create addons for.

On the subject:
Although you may not realise it, OFP's a-a combat is actually realistic. Think about it: they usually add all those big dogfights in to the movies to create atmosphere. In reality, some planes are destroyed before they see the enemy. The jammers in OFP are semi-realistic. They block too many things. There should be a slightly higher chance of getting shot down with it.

As much as it pains me to say it, the only thing extremely unrealistic about air combat in OFP is the way most mssiles behave. Like you've said, they should be proximity detonated. Of course, this is something very hard to do in ofp, as stated. :-\

The dogfight has been obsolete ever since the invention of long range missiles and AWACS. Now planes don't have to be close in to take down the enemy. They can be miles away. MANY miles away.

This doesn't mean I don't want it done. I really want to see more heated dogfights. Even if they may be unrealistic.

[Kyle Sarnik]

Hopefully ArmA and G2 are easier to mod and create addons for.

On the subject:
Although you may not realise it, OFP's a-a combat is actually realistic. Think about it: they usually add all those big dogfights in to the movies to create atmosphere. In reality, some planes are destroyed before they see the enemy. The jammers in OFP are semi-realistic. They block too many things. There should be a slightly higher chance of getting shot down with it.

As much as it pains me to say it, the only thing extremely unrealistic about air combat in OFP is the way most mssiles behave. Like you've said, they should be proximity detonated. Of course, this is something very hard to do in ofp, as stated. :-\

The dogfight has been obsolete ever since the invention of long range missiles and AWACS. Now planes don't have to be close in to take down the enemy. They can be miles away. MANY miles away.

This doesn't mean I don't want it done. I really want to see more heated dogfights. Even if they may be unrealistic.

I don't care about the dogfights, its the engine limitations that we all hate.

[penguinman]

@kyle: please dont be rude to him, he can say his opinion.

The dogfight has been obsolete ever since the invention of long range missiles and AWACS. Now planes don't have to be close in to take down the enemy.

funny you should mention that. i saw a program on the History channel it mentioned that all the air commanders said that before vietnam. so they didnt train pilots in dogfighting, and thats why they lost so many planes. or so it said. im not sure though now because they do have some long long range missiles.

[crave22]

Well, the missiles in Vietnam weren't all that great. Besides, the MiGs back then tried to sneak up on the pilots by going low. However, with the modern AWACS they can't do this. Back then they could since the radar on the ground had a blind spot for planes flying very low. Now, AWACS prevents this since it is airborne. Therefore, its blindspot is above it. This means ground based radar can cover for it.

And I don't think Kyle's being rude. He's just pointing out a well known fact. However, this topic is indirectly related to engine limitations. If I'm correct, everyone else is talking about how to get realistic air combat into ofp. Engine limitations are a side effect of this subject.

[UNN]

Regarding the limitations, Kyle is correct in that you cant extend the life of a missile in OFP. On the others he is wrong, in the sense they can be done. But correct in saying it isn't straight forward.

For identifying the target,firing unit and missile. Thats practicle and is being worked on.

Default OFP missile guidance as in the video clip is borderline for anything other than AI. Perhaps more can be done in Armed Assault, but I doubt it. Probably more like Game 2, if it was something BIS wanted to implement.

[Plane]

I've checked out the Rad_F18's script, that's amazing!
But I don't know how to avoid missile being defected