blind AI sniper

[voodzia]

Hello,
I have a problem with AI sniper. I mean I can't make him shoot at enemy units
Here's my code:

Code: [Select]

; makes sniper to shoot at spotted enemy

"sniper1 reveal _x" foreach sniperTargets

_n = count Units alfa
_random = random _n
_random = _random - (_random % 1)
_target = Units alfa select _random
sniper1 doTarget _target
sniper1 doFire _target

exit
And I didn't forget to place a trigger (West present) on the map with activation field:
sniperTargets=thislist

Could you tell me what's wrong with this script?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Kind regards,
voodzia

ps.
Sniper has in the init field those commends:

this disableAI "move"
this setUnitPos "up"
this setBehaviour "combat"
this setCombatMode "red"

One more thing - you can see it for yourself - there's a screenshot on my site.

[Blanco]

Try to raise his skill.

Here's an old script for multiple snipers and targets :

Code: [Select]

_shoters=[sniper1,sniper2,sniper3]
_Targets=[group West_Leader1,group West_Leader2,group West_Leader3]

#repeat
_i=0;_j=0
#loop1
~10
#loop2
"(_shoters select _i) reveal _x; (_shoters select _i) dofire _x" foreach units (_Targets select _j)
_i=_i+1
~3
?(_i<count _targets): goto "loop2"
_j=_j+1;_i=0
?(_j<count _shoters): goto "loop1"

?("alive _X" count (units (_Targets select 0)+units (_targets select 1)+units (_targets select 2))>0): goto "repeat"

[voodzia]

But it's already on the max point

1st Edit: Thanks Blanco for the script. I'm gonna try it out in a minute.

2nd Edit: OK - I made some tests and must say that this script works but similarly to mine. Namely sniper shoots at my group but not always. Sometimes he fires when I'm 300m away but sometimes he doesn't shoot when I stand 100m in front of him. I just can't get it And btw, this script gives me one error:

'("alive _X" count (units (_Targets select 0)+units (_targets select 1)+units (_targets select 2))>|#|0)': Error Zero divisor

Could you tell me what's wrong with that?

Now I'm gonna make that little change that Planck has mentioned in his post.

[Planck]

 Maybe you could try changing this line:

_target = Units alfa select _random

to this:

_target = sniperTargets select _random


Planck

[voodzia]

I changed this line as you aptly suggested me but it still ain't working I just have no clue why this sniper doesn't shoot? I mean he shoots sometimes but not always. It's really very odd.

[CrashnBurn]

I've found the best results can sometimes come from simplicity. Just place the sniper on the map. In his ini- this setunitpos "DOWN". Don't give him any waypoints or scripts. Let him do things on his own.

By scripting his targets, you're interfering with his AI. His AI is telling him to target one thing and your script is telling him to target another, most likely confusing him. All the while you and your units are moving, causing him to change the priority of his targets, and then your script changes things again. It's no wonder he won't shoot anything...lol.

[Planck]

Still.....I wonder if using disableAI "target" or "autotarget" would stop him from choosing his own targets.



Planck

[THobson]

I am with CrashnBurn on this.  Keep it simple.  I have some snipers in my latest mission and the beta testers crying foul over how good they are.  All I have done is set their skill to maximum, grouped several of them together and put this in their init fields:

doStop this; this addweapon "NVGoggles"; this addweapon "binocular"; this setbehaviour "COMBAT";this doWatch (object XXXX)

The XXXX is chosen to make sure they watch the direction I want them to.

I also put them in some well chosen bushes.

But that is all.  No scripting.

Seriously, they are deadly.

[macguba]

OFP is a sophisticated game.   Sniper units are smart.    They don't necessarily go shooting straightaway just because you told them to.      Give them a  minute or two to absorb the situation.      Make the target easier to spot by making him move.   (Movement is a HUGE deal in this game in terms of spotability.)

Remember that a sniper who can see an enemy unit that fits his AI parameters will shoot.  

Sometimes he fires when I'm 300m away but sometimes he doesn't shoot when I stand 100m in front of him.

Excellent!    Good mission design, well done.   :thumbsup:

That's exactly what makes this such a good game.    Sometimes he sees you and sometimes he doesn't.   Sometimes, when he sees you, he decides against attempting the shot.   Design your mission around these unbelievably complex, sophisticated and wonderful AI routines.    Do not try and beat them out of him.

If you want to play a loser corridor game where the AI always behaves in exactly the same way then do so:  do not expect a quality game like OFP to behave in such a pointlessly dreary fashion.

[voodzia]

Wow - thanks guys for your response. I'll try out all your tips after I get some sleep
For now I just would like to describe this issue from the very beginning.
Initially when I placed snipers in the watch towers I wasn't using any scripts and wanted to find out how they react to enemy presence. And they response didn't satisfy me at all. I wanted them to shoot almost immediately when they spot unfriendly units in certain areas. What's more I spent almost half a day marking these "killing fields" on the map because I wanted to be sure that nobody will make his way through these special zones. And that's way I started to look around for some scripts. I searched this forum and found some very useful hints which helped me to write this tiny script. I wrote it to make sure that snipers will fire as soon as enemy enters these special zones. And I'm sure that snipers do see unfriendly units - they ain't hiding behind trees or bushes. I just don't understand why they don't fire when they are forced to do so?

@ macguba

Sometimes he fires when I'm 300m away but sometimes he doesn't shoot when I stand 100m in front of him.
Excellent!    Good mission design, well done.  Well done!

I disagree with you. If this sniper doesn't fire at me when I'm 100m in front of him that means that he is a looser. I run almost 200m and he didn't shoot me. I'd say that such situation is completely unrealistic and I just can't let this happen in my mission - otherwise this mission is crap.

If you want to play a loser corridor game where the AI always behaves in exactly the same way then do so:  do not expect a quality game like OFP to behave in such a pointlessly dreary fashion.

Of course I don't expect this game (its AI to be more precise) to be predictable but in this specific case I'd like to make it happen - the problem is I can't make this AI sniper to act as I want him to act I don't want to depend on these "unbelievably complex, sophisticated and wonderful AI routines" as you nicely described this awful nature of OFP's AI.
But anyway thanks for all your suggestions.
Kind regards,
voodzia

[macguba]

Something I forgot to mention is that it is sometimes helpful to give the sniper a team mate:  a spotter.    It is my impression (though not thorougly tested) that a sniper with some pals is more likely to shoot you.  Use doStop and/or disableAI commands to keep loons in place.

If all else fails use reveal commands.    As you rightly point out the "complex, sophisticated and wonderful AI routines" do sometimes produce a bag of shit.  ;D   The problem is that they are just not quite sophisticated enough.....

[THobson]

that a sniper with some pals is more likely to shoot you.

My experience also.  If you put several snipers around an area so they can see it from several angles and then group them together they are each able to tell the others what they have seen, maybe the AI for one of them is asleep, but it won't be for all of them.

If all else fails use reveal commands.

IMHO reveal is evil, it is almost in the same category as: doMove getPos player.  They are both terrible cheats if used in the mission - in cutscenes is fine.  Reveal does have one redeeming/non-cheat use and that is to help the ai of one side know about enemy units that its side already knows about and it should already be aware of.  In otherwords to help the OFP engine.  

If you really want absolute no-go areas why not play the sounds of gun fire and bodies being hit and setDammage 1 the intruding unit(s)?  It would achieve what you want and be easy to do, but it would be boring.

[voodzia]

Something I forgot to mention is that it is sometimes helpful to give the sniper a team mate:  a spotter.

I guess you're right but in this case unfortunately it's impossible to do it - snipers are in watch towers and there's no room for the second guy. But I don't know if these snipers have binoculars - and if they do I'll give them command "doWatch" - maybe then they be more eager to fire.

If all else fails use reveal commands.

But the point is that I use it all the time and nevertheless they act sometimes as if were blind Besides I made some tests without this script. And results amazed me much. There's almost no difference whether I use the script or I don't use it. How can it be possible?

If you put several snipers around an area so they can see it from several angles and then group them together they are each able to tell the others what they have seen, maybe the AI for one of them is asleep, but it won't be for all of them.

Undoubtedly you're right but I don't want to place more than two snipers. One of them is to observe SE area while the other one must watch SW region. So in most cases they won't see each other. And placing more than two snipers is redundant in this particular situation.

Reveal does have one redeeming/non-cheat use and that is to help the ai of one side know about enemy units that its side already knows about and it should already be aware of. In otherwords to help the OFP engine.

I must disagree with you. I mean you're right that this command is a kind of cheat but sometimes it's just essential and extremely helpful - as you noticed this for yourself For example - if these AI snipers could engage enemy when spotted running somewhere 500m - 800m in front of them I wouldn't have to use this cheat. But the fact is that OFP engine leaves a lot to be desired and sometimes you just have to give it a hand.

If you really want absolute no-go areas why not play the sounds of gun fire and bodies being hit and setDammage 1 the intruding unit(s)?  It would achieve what you want and be easy to do, but it would be boring.

Actually you found the answer by yourself. Using command setDammage 1 would be boring for me I mean mission maker but that's not a real problem. The point is that such situation would be very irritating for players. I don't want to make these snipers 100% accurate - I just would like to help them a bit be more aggressive, to see and hear better and to shoot faster - and that's all I want. I hope you can see the difference between these two situations.
But it's enough this talking - I get back to my mission
Thank you all for your help.
Kind regards,
voodzia

[THobson]

snipers are in watch towers and there's no room for the second guy.

You can group them even if they are nowhere near each other.  Just give them a doStop and make sure they are not In Formation.

I don't know if these snipers have binoculars - and if they do I'll give them command "doWatch"

Did you read Reply#7?

I would never use reveal to tell a unit about some enemy it cannot know about, and just because a unit is in front of him doesn't mean he must know about it, real people miss things.  It creates unpredictability.  Also I hate playing missions where things like this are  done, if I detect it happening I stop playing and go and spend my time on something else.

Are there really no possibilities of having other friendlies in the area that the snipers can be grouped with?  That way anything one of them knows - they all know.

[voodzia]

You can group them even if they are nowhere near each other.  Just give them a doStop and make sure they are not In Formation.

They are already grouped but I'm not sure if it changes anything in their behavior. But could you tell my why I'm to give them doStop command?

Did you read Reply#7?

Yes, I read it but haven't tried it out yet. I'm still trying to figure out my script and make some changes there.

I would never use reveal to tell a unit about some enemy it cannot know about, and just because a unit is in front of him doesn't mean he must know about it, real people miss things.  It creates unpredictability.

I guess you don't understand my situation. AI in OFP is rather weak I'd say and that's way I'm trying to make it a little bit better. Real people who play OFP are much more smarter than AI soldiers and I'd like to make player to feel a little less comfortable while playing my mission. And I disagree with you that real sniper who stands in the watch tower would miss a squad of 9 soldiers when they run 300m in front of him. He could miss some enemy movements if they were somewhere 1km away of his position but anything closer than 500m should be spotted and shot (I'm talking about some open field - not a forest or woods or some bushes).

Are there really no possibilities of having other friendlies in the area that the snipers can be grouped with?  That way anything one of them knows - they all know.

Unfortunately there are none. I'm not gonna make any patrols near the base since Russians think they're safe there. So these two snipers are their eyes and ears and also the first line of defense. I just would like them to be also the last one for some careless players

[macguba]

There's almost no difference whether I use the script or I don't use it. How can it be possible?

The AI is sophisticated.  It doesn't shoot just because it can see you.     The reason you have no difference is because, even without the reveal command, the sniper can see you just fine.    However he is waiting:  perhaps for a better shot, perhaps to see if you have any buddies with you.  

If you were a sniper and you saw somebody in your field of fire do you snap off a round immediately?   No, of course not.   You observe the situation, report in, have a look round for your mates, watch to see if you can figure out what's really going on and so on.   You shoot only when you fully understand the situation.   AI snipers are the same.

If you want to bypass this sophistication then try adding doTarget and doFire commands.

[Planck]

Hmmmm.......the point is, he did use doTarget and doFire commands and it made no difference.....that is what he is saying.

I would have thought his sniper would have done as he was told if maybe disableAI "target" or disableAI "autotarget" had been used also.

Then again.....maybe not.


Planck

[Blanco]

Maybe he doesn't see you because he's watching through his scope all the time?
I think position is the most important thing to make a sniper fire, just moving him a bit could make a big difference.

I was working on an updata of my fixedpositions script a few weeks ago and i've found that AI fight better without dowatch and dotarget stuff, but they can use some scripted help when the enemy is near.
When you order them to watch a certain direction and the enemy aproach him from an other side, the dowatch stuff will override the normal AI behavoir and you can kill him easily from behind. AI like freedom, but it doesn't harm to point them in the right direction when the enemy is near, cos the engine has big trouble with close combat situations,... especially snipers.
At least that's my experience with studying the AI.
It's fun to watch the AI fight with a this switchcamera "internal" command in the init
 

[voodzia]

@ Planck

I would have thought his sniper would have done as he was told if maybe disableAI "target" or disableAI "autotarget" had been used also.

I use both of these commands and must say that something is wrong with one of the snipers. One is firing fine - though still far from my expectations. But the other one doesn't shoot at all. And they both have exactly the same commands. However I must say that I regrouped them just in case.

@ Blanco

Maybe he doesn't see you because he's watching through his scope all the time?

That's a good point. I don't know why but they're aiming all the time. Here's list of commands I give them in the init.sqs file:

Code: [Select]

removeAllWeapons sniper1
sniper1 addMagazine "svddragunov"
sniper1 addMagazine "svddragunov"
sniper1 addMagazine "svddragunov"
sniper1 addMagazine "svddragunov"
sniper1 addWeapon "svddragunov"
sniper1 addMagazine "tokarevmag"
sniper1 addMagazine "tokarevmag"
sniper1 addMagazine "tokarevmag"
sniper1 addMagazine "tokarevmag"
sniper1 addWeapon "tokarev"
sniper1 addWeapon "binocular"
sniper1 addWeapon "nvgoggles"
sniper1 setBehaviour "safe"
sniper1 disableAI "move"
sniper1 disableAI "target"
sniper1 disableAI "autotarget"
sniper1 setUnitPos "up"
sniper1 doWatch (getPos south)And I really have no idea why they don't watch through binoculars?
Btw Blanco - could you tell me what's wrong with this script you posted here? I get this error when I use it:
'("alive _X" count (units (_Targets select 0)+units (_targets select 1)+units (_targets select 2))>|#|0)': Error Zero divisor
Thank you in advance for your help.
Kind regards,
voodzia

[Planck]

sniper1 setBehaviour "safe"

Maybe you could change that to "combat" or "aware".


Planck

[voodzia]

Initially all units in the base are in safe mode. There's just no need to set them at some kind of alert state. And I don't know why they are watching through their scopes all the time. They should scan horizon using binoculars I gave them. However I change their behaviour when unfriendly units come into these special zones - which are triggers of course. Then I set "combat, red" to snipers and "aware, white" to another soldiers in the base. I hope it's ok. I just would like to know why snipers don't use binoculars when I tell them to do so. Did I miss something?

[Blanco]

Forget the script, it's old and a bad example.
There is nothing wrong with the script but it only worked with 3 snipers named (sniper1,sniper2,sniper3) and 3 groups with 3 leaders named (West_leader1,West_leader2,
West_leader3)

I have no idea why they don't use the binoc, normally when you give them one, they will use it, even without  commands like unitname selectweapon "binocular"

[CrashnBurn]

One thing to mention. Snipers (east & west) already have nightvision programmed into their AI. There is NO need to give them NVGoggles. They also have the highest shot accuracy rating along with Spetz Natz and Black Ops @ 3.5. Compare that to an officer which has 2.0 and the majority of other soldier classes are 1.5.

[General Barron]

Haven't read this whole thread but...

I've had big trouble with AI snipers in the past as well. I don't know if there is a whole lot you can do. I believe the problem lies in the configuration of the units and/or weapons themselves. I don't think the weapons are configured to be shot by the AI past about 200m or so, and the units don't seemed to be configured to see beyond that range either...

The answer? Well, unfortunately, despite the millions of addons out there, I don't think anyone has decided to actually increase the sight distance of the AI yet. Supposedly there is some "long range engagement weapons pack" out there that might fix this problem. But I don't think you can fix this with scripting and default BIS stuff along.

@CrashnBurn,

I believe you are looking at the 'accuracy' property of those units, correct? In fact, that property has nothing to do with how well the unit can shoot, unless I'm mistaken. It actually just determines what is said when someone 'spots' that unit. (Example: "10 o'clock, AT SOLDIER, 400"--he said "AT SOLDIER" because the AT soldier's 'accuracy' property was low enough). How well an AI shoots is coded in the weapon's config, not the unit's.

[macguba]

I have been shot by a sniper from nearly 1km.     And many times from over 600m.     No scripting on the sniper, no spotters, nothing.   Pure AI.

[UNN]

I have a problem with AI sniper. I mean I can't make him shoot at enemy units

I can get the default OFP sniper to engage at about 900 meters on the Desert Island and 600m on Nogova.

I can post an example mission, but it's easy enough to test yourself. Just place a sniper on the map, with an enemy group moving towards it, at about 1000m. Name the enemy commander E1 and set the snipers skill level to max. In the snipers init field add:

Code: [Select]

This DoWatch E1
The sniper will start to think about firing as soon as he identifies units as hostile, the trick is to give him this info as soon as possible. Which the DoWatch command does.

Like I say, on Nogova he will open up at around 600M. I think OFP tries to simulate different terrain types for the AI. As players we just see flat textured terrain, it's almost as easy to see AI in grass as it is, when they are out in the open on the road or beach e.t.c

But the AI must have rules setup for it, try engaging AI while standing in the middle of the road, as opposed to standing in a bush. If your targets are moving through woods, bushes,  e.t.c it will take a bit longer for the AI to kick in. Obviously stance will have an effect and movement to. Teleport a unit in front of the enemy and the AI wont see him, move and they suddenly start to react.

I was working on an updata of my fixedpositions script a few weeks ago and i've found that AI fight better without dowatch and dotarget stuff, but they can use some scripted help when the enemy is near.

Yeah but OFP's AI has to be all things to all soldiers, if you want dedicated long range units like snipers, you have to use DoWatch. The best you can do is give him some close support.

Maybe he doesn't see you because he's watching through his scope all the time?

Binoculars are the only optics that appear to have an effect on the AI. Snipers scopes are just eye candy for as far as the AI is concerned. Sniper units just have enhanced eye sight, what weapon they carry has no effect on spotting infantry.

And I don't know why they are watching through their scopes all the time. They should scan horizon using binoculars I gave them.

I have no idea why they don't use the binoc, normally when you give them one, they will use it, even without  commands like unitname selectweapon "binocular"

Whats normal? AI only use Binoculars periodically, cant remember now but for arguments sake, say every 30 seconds. The Scan horizon command just gets the AI to rotate 360 degrees constantly. So combined together they must cover a tiny area of the front line with binoculars?

You can greatly improve the ability of dedicated AI when it comes to spotting enemy at long ranges, in the all the ways you mentioned above. But wait for it.......You have to use addons That's where all the important settings are for the AI when it comes to long range fire and Binoculars.

I've had big trouble with AI snipers in the past as well. I don't know if there is a whole lot you can do. I believe the problem lies in the configuration of the units and/or weapons themselves. I don't think the weapons are configured to be shot by the AI past about 200m or so, and the units don't seemed to be configured to see beyond that range either...

Cant speak for all other addons but the default OFP sniper rifles will fire at ranges of 900 meters given the right conditions. Inv 1944 snipers wont, but that's probably down to the weapons config. SEBNAM snipers have the best range I've seen under normal conditions, 800 meters on Malden.

[Tyger]

Try removing the pistols from the sniper. I tried to make a hostage situation with the resistance snipers as terrorists on the roofs. They wouldn't fire at me until I was about 50m out and then they used their ingrams.
Similarly, I switched the units to Russian snipers without pistols, they would snipe me from 800+ metres.

[voodzia]

First of all I'd like to thank you all for your great support - I really appreciate your help and all your suggestions are very useful for me since it's my first mission I'm trying to make and without you I could make a sh*t.
Now let's get back on topic.
Here's my present situation:
1. I still can't figure out why they don't use binoculars? I'd say that they even aren't in safe mode - they're watching though the scopes all the time.
2. Today I've made some tests and discovered quite odd thing. Namely one of the snipers doesn't fire even when I fire at him. He is standing still and aiming at me but doesn't pull the trigger at all. I even removed "disableAI target and autotarget" from his init field and that changed nothing. I guess the problem is the third command "disable AI move" but I can't remove it. I mean when I do so he jumps off the tower and then starts to fire. And I'd like him to be in the tower all the time. Do you think that this tower can be some kind of obstacle for him? To find out if it's possible I took his place in this tower as a player but imo everything should be fine. I mean there're some places where he can't see because of bars but not all the time.
3. There's one thing I forgot to tell you. I mentioned yesterday that one of the snipers fires a way much better than the other one. At first I thought that it's because I regrouped them. But I forgot that I also changed his tower to another one - House WireTower from Kegetys' Editor Addon 1.11. Initially his tower was same as that second which is placed in this base by BIS - it's steel tower iirc. But now I'm starting to think that there's something wrong with the tower - not the sniper. Do you think it's possible?

@ Tyger

Try removing the pistols from the sniper.

They didn't have pistols at the beginning. I added them Tokarevs only yesterday. And besides I don't want to remove pistols because they might be useful for snipers when enemy units somehow come closer to the base.

@ UNN

I can get the default OFP sniper to engage at about 900 meters on the Desert Island and 600m on Nogova.

I can hardly believe that it's possible but haven't tried it out yet. And besides my mission is on Koglujev island where there's almost no flat grounds there - at least in my mission's area

[Blanco]

I think this is the effect

He is standing still and aiming at me but doesn't pull the trigger at all

and this is the cause...

Do you think that this tower can be some kind of obstacle for him?

Try another tower than the claustrophobic steeltower.

[voodzia]

But how can I replace this towe since it's on the map by default - I mean BIS placed it there.

[Blanco]

You can't.

[UNN]

Do you think that this tower can be some kind of obstacle for him? To find out if it's possible I took his place in this tower as a player but imo everything should be fine.

Possible, I noticed the AI wont fire over sandbags if they belong to the same side. So the thing your firing from, could effect the AI, even when it looks ok from the players point of view. Plus if your Sniper is jumping down, he is probably looking for a clear line of sight? And out in the open his firest reaction is to go prone.

I can hardly believe that it's possible but haven't tried it out yet. And besides my mission is on Kolgujev island where there's almost no flat grounds there - at least in my mission's area.

High ground is definetly an advantage But I had a mess around and the Reveal command works great, better than DoWatch with standard units. So it probably is the tower or something else. He will open up around 900 meters on Kolgulev. here's my test mission:

900 Meter Sniper

It's worth viewing just from the Targets point of view, not often in OFP you here the bullet fly past before the shot.

[voodzia]

So if I can't replace this stupid watchtower - what'd you suggest me to do? Placing another one near it would be looking too much unrealistic I think. I guess I'll have to remove this "disableAI move" command and that's gonna make him jump down the tower and start shooting. That's all I can do I'm afraid
@ UNN - nice mission but I can't switch cameras - how am I to do it? I'm sorry but I just know sh*t about cameras in OFP and in general either

[THobson]

If you cannot make OFP do what you want it to do, change what you want it to do until it can.  You will save yourself a lot of frustration.

[UNN]

I'm sorry but I just know sh*t about camers in OFP and in general either

Well you could just play as the East commander, but I added radio options to the mission to switch cameras between him and and Snipers Scope. It's handy to see what the AI thinks of it's target. Without the reveal command, the sniper spots a man\unknown at around 800 meters, but they can get well within 400 meters before he identifies them as hostile.

gonna make him jump down the tower and start shooting

I'm sure your sniper would be happier lying in a bush somewhere, i'd group him with a officer in the tower. He could use his vantage point to spot targets.

[macguba]

When you hit a brick wall like this the secret is lateral thinking.    OFP is a wonderful, complex game:  when it rains on your parade, you can usually apply a bit of lateral thinking and imagination to invent a slightly different parade, upon which the game has no desire to rain.

[voodzia]

Time for a little conclusion - AI snipers ain't blind, steeltowers are sh*t and you all guys are great. Thank you all for your help.
Kind regards,
voodzia