Author Topic: Unusual AI behaviour? (Read 2880 times)

Fragorl · « **on:** 05 Apr 2005, 10:18:43 »

I just noticed this.....

When I gave a domove command to an ai soldier, it happened to be inside a building (an editor-placed one - of the type "East command HQ"). Now, in my experience the ai often treats buildings as if they arent there, running straight through them. Imagine my suprise when the loon stops, looks at the front door, walks throught it, turns right, navigates the building perfectly and arrives at his set destination! I repeated this with several different locations in the building - there was no coincidence. He even managed to navigate his way - correctly - to the most difficult-to-reach room in the building. And, what's more, he came to rest in a perfect tactical position, at a window.

Is this usual AI behaviour? I've never heard of ai doing this before, so please tell me if I'm getting worked up over nothing. But if not....

So here is some info for the situation:

Editor map - desert island
Unit - just a good ol' soldierWB
Building - editor placed 'East command HQ' (from one of the editor upgrades)
OFP - 1.96, no mods runnig. Quite a few addons in my addon folder though

This is the sort of behaviour it would be awesome to see more often, it would add much more to combat against the ai if they used their brains the way this guy did

!

macguba · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 11:03:42 »

I've seen both of the things you have: AI just running through walls and also AI navigating a building perfectly. The commonest behaviour in my experience is something in between: trying to use doors with varying degrees of success.

What you saw is what is supposed to happen in the game. But for some technical reason it doesn't always work.

THobson · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 11:31:53 »

I also have seen an ai loon standing in the building rotating permanently and also in the case of an area closed off by fencing, with only one exit a doMove to somewhere outside can result in random running about before coming to halt ignoring all subsequent doMove commands.

So it is a case of trial and error, if they do what you want first time - feel blessed and move on, if not then it gets fiddly.

dmakatra · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 11:52:21 »

I think it also has something to do with the buildings model. Maybe the geometry LOD. And don't qoute me on this because I'm no addon maker but I think there is a pathfinding LOD.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

Pilot · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 14:33:13 »

Quote

And don't qoute me on this because I'm no addon maker but I think there is a pathfinding LOD.

You are right. There is a lod addonmakers can use called 'paths'. A 'paths' lod tells the unit where in the building he is supposed to go. Some buildings may not have this 'paths' lod, hence the ai will not use the building properly.

h- · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 15:28:42 »

Well, it doesn't matter if you have the AI paths there because the game engine is so crippled the AI just gets confused in the buildings...
The physics engine is also so crippled that the walls on houses just barely exist as a physical obstacle...

Maybe in some rare optimal situation the AI can read the paths perfectly and thus navigate inside the building, as described above...

All enterable BIS houses have AI pathways and the lot (afaik)...

Of course if some enterable building (or a forest object) doesn't have the AI paths AI is unable to 'use' it properly...

I myself have not witnessed such sane AI in buildings as described in the first post, but it has been a looooooooooong time since I've done something else than straight forward scripting with OFP so maybe I have just forgotten witnessing such behaviour...

DBR_ONIX · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 18:11:39 »

Me and a friend who play coop a lot see stuff like that. AI going in to house perfectly, loooking scarily close to clearing it, going back out. AI covering each other, and other genral-smartness..
Using Y2K3 most of the time prob helps, but it can sometimes be scarey how decent the AI is. The weirdest time was playing Lost Squad with no addons or mods, the AI shot me though a window, then walking into town, looked in about 3 buildings, the tanks stoped if their routes had mines in it.

..the AI is learning?

- Ben
Oh, the VME AI (THe version that is released, or the new one, both are/look great), make AI amazing. Again, in coop, the infantry couldn't shoot Gand, so the tanks sharted shelling his location, the snipers can acctualy hit you from >10m away, the driver gets out of the MG Jeep and uses gun if you cap driver.. Impressive..

macguba · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 Apr 2005, 18:21:55 »

The AI get a lot of stick, and sometimes rightly so. Which makes easy to forget that it is largely the high quality of the AI that has kept us all interested in this game for so long.

Fragorl · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 Apr 2005, 01:00:57 »

I guess that this is true about the ai, that it's part of ther reason so many of us are still playing OFP (well, we all are

). There are many aspects of the ai that are superb, and are taken for granted. However, it would be nice if they used their knowledge of the building to good effect, though, instead of the usual strategy of proning and not moving at all until they're shot to death.

I was going to say, maybe there was some in-built part of the building itself that let the ai navigate throught it. Not being an addon editor at all, I was completely stumped as to what this might be, and actually entertained the idea that maybe the ai just got smart all of a sudden

A path lod, eh.

It seems that, unfortunately, this only works if the move target is inside the building; if it's outside, the AI is back to being lost, and defualts to lying down.

Annoyingly, this effect showed up for me as i was testing a script to allow the AI to find cover from a tank. This movetarget overlapped the building slightly; I figured that the AI would just move as close to the point as he could, and stop. Instead, he goes on a jaunt round the side of the building, walks right past the tank, and through the front door. Thanks to this behaviour, my script is completely unreliable around buildings with path LODs now

Looks like a case of a blessing being a curse in disguise.

Blanco · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 Apr 2005, 03:32:49 »

Quote

Oh, the VME AI (THe version that is released, or the new one, both are/look great), make AI amazing.

What is VME AI?

Fragorl · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 Apr 2005, 04:43:56 »

Ok, i did a search, here are some videos of the VME ai....

I don't know what to make of them, but they certainly look very good. I'd like to see some videos of the ai acting in a wider range of situations, though

h- · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 Apr 2005, 12:37:55 »

At least none of the released VME AddOns I found (AddOn Pack 1.something) include any kind of scripting or config tweaks that would suggest that something was done to the AI...

DBR, are you perhaps talking about the PLA AddOns, not VME_PLA ??

Or are you sure you have not been involved in some sort of VME AI MP beta test

EDIT:

Quote

I'd like to see some videos of the ai acting in a wider range of situations, though

Me too, since that kind of thing is very easy to 'stage' in the mission editor and the 'film' it...

The engagement ranges can be improved via config (afaik), nothing special about that...
And before resistance or some patch for it the AI snipers did engage from very long distances...
In some test I made (on the desert Isle though) a loong while ago the AI sniper engaged my group from at least 1000 meters... It was kinda cool when suddenly one of my group dropped and it took a while until I heard the shot

And if someone dared to stand up from our cover he was immediately shot in the head...
But that doesn't seem happen anymore...

Also I think the AI reaction time might be partly tied to the sensitivity and sensitivityEar values in the config, so tweaking those may make the AI to react faster... At least rising those values makes the AI spot you more effectively...

EDIT2:
Oh, ok... Now I got the right version of the VME

Haven't tested it yet though...

Fragorl · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 Apr 2005, 05:27:20 »

Alright, I think i've also got the right vesrion, 1.01b? It took a fair while to dl all that! I'm about to check it out

EDIT: Well, credit where due, the ai *seems* to be really, really good. I saw an effective flanking maneuver for the first time. I had two opposing CQB (that's the urban AI) squads going into trinite town centre at right angles to each other. As the conflict broke out, part of one of the squads detached themselves from the main group and headed round some houses,navigating very well, until they emerged on the right flank of the enemy. Also: I saw a couple of other very interesting things, which I would like to test further to confirm. All in all, so far... phew!

h- · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 Apr 2005, 10:05:04 »

Yeah, the AI seemed to be better, but I did not se any flanking...
Unless all the enemy groups tried to flank from the same side

Also, looking at the scripts there seems to actually nothing going on

Just some random 'move there using this anim' lines

Of course haven't had the time to really dig into those...

But AI was indeed more eager to use nades (M203) etc.. This far they've been quite useless...
Didn't try if they would use the rifle nades (mortar) which I think they don't do at all in vanilla OFP...

What was a bit odd that amidst quite intensive firefight quite a few of my AI (on 'danger' mode) just stood up firing altough crouching or prone would have been a lot better idea...

Anyway, this seems to be a good AI addition so this must be tested further...

Fragorl · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 Apr 2005, 13:26:43 »

Now, I dePBO's the scripts and couldn't find anyting much either. I was looking in the VME_events addon and the VME_CQB addon. No, there's no script n either of those that could be doing anything spectacular.The largest ones seem to contain a whole bunch of nearestobj calls, checking against a whole bunch of object types, but not doing much with it.

On the other hand, taht ai was doing some scary things, so... don't know what the story is there. Needs more investigation, most likely.

h- · « **Reply #15 on:** 08 Apr 2005, 17:26:32 »

I think TonyRanger has written those scripts so maybe he should be tormented with PMs, emails etc... ;D

But then again, OFP scripting gets sometimes so close of being Black Magic that it's scary...

GI-YO · « **Reply #16 on:** 08 Apr 2005, 19:38:55 »

slight change of question but still the same basics

Why when I set a sqaud of 5 loons on a hold, combat, line, open fire WP two or three of the loons run forwards fifty meters and not stay put, as I told them to do. Is this another example of AI doing it's own thing or a mistake by myself (a high probability ;D). Thanks in advance.

GI-YO

bdfy1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 20:18:26 »

I'm really interesting about OFP AI improvement. I searched famous ofp fan-sites, but didn't find a lot. Just some scripts that help AI units get in machine guns and pick up weapons or config boosts...
You can find it in editors department. I also recommend
"The AdvanceD Artificial Intellect Alpha"
http://www.ofpedit.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4

You said that VME units are very smart, their behavior differs from standart one, right ?
I guess you are speaking about this mod
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?showthis=7851
Unfortunatly , this mod is too big for me to download ( I live in Belorussia and internet is quite expensive

Can you unpbo it or some and tell me what's the point ? Or may be some of your guys will be so kind to detruncate it ( I don't intersted about most models and textures ) and upload it to some ftp (I'll give you ftp password if you don't have one )?

Fragorl · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 23:18:09 »

Well me too - I am not really interested in the models/textures as much as the AI.

It will take some to sit down and analyse the configs and the rest of the scripts (had a glance at some of them, but couldn't really find anything as you will have read). Time I am pressed for at the moment, but I've got a mid semester break coming up and I will be able to devote some hours to flashpoint and VME then.

bdfy1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 00:31:29 »

Fragorl
Thus may be you'll do me a favor? Without model and textures it shiuld become very small... please e-mail me ( bdfy1985@yandex.ru ) - I'll give you ftp password.

bdfy1 · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 00:41:40 »

I've just found several AI scripts on this server . Check it out.

h- · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 09:47:44 »

Quite...
Group Link II is supposed to be very good...

I have never tested it though...
No time to ass about in the mission editor

Fragorl · « **Reply #22 on:** 16 Apr 2005, 08:34:43 »

bdfy1

I do not mind at all emailing the stuff you want, but I'll have to do a bit of messing about with the configs, not too much hopefully. There are quite a few different pbo files with this addon, so I'l have to do a little bit of sorting to locate the relevant ones. This might take a little time, but perhaps in the next little while/week or so, maybe sooner, I'll have it.

bdfy1 · « **Reply #23 on:** 16 Apr 2005, 15:58:13 »

Fragorl
I guess just deleting all *.p3d, *.pac,*.paa, *.jpeg files from all mod's pbos will be enough

Just decompress all pbo's and then run bat-file like that

Quote

DEL /f /s *.p3d, *.pac,*.paa *.jpeg *.ogg *.lip *.mp3

( look through file extensions in mod, because I can't know what it contains
I can even write a small exe to do all the mess - it's a piece of cake;)
It also would be nice to make checksum (*.md5 or so ) for mod - just to know ewhat it contains.

Fragorl · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Apr 2005, 07:06:44 »

Ok- if you don't mind having some non-functional pbo's to begin with, I can do this. But you will (obviously) need to go through the configs and remove/edit all the sound/texture/model references that are there, once i've sent it. That's fine with me; it saves me some work

EDIT: in the mail

bdfy1 · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Apr 2005, 13:40:00 »

Great! I just start exploring this mod but already found some really cool stuff...
Check your mail I have some questions...

Fragorl · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 04:26:20 »

Well, since this is becoming a more general AI discussion thread...

I did a few trials to see how well the pathfinding algorithms of the AI did.

The results were quite interesting. Allowing for the ai's inability to negotiate small gaps between buildings, I made a small maze of buildings to see just where he could reach and where not.

In each instance, I restarted the trial with AI at the centr, and issued a move order.

There was a cutoff point that seemed to extend to the left at right angles (that I marked with a black line) to the direction the AI was facing; as you can see he could find his way out of the relatively complex maze to his left, but had an inablility to travel a few metres more further back, to a point which was quite easily accessible from the first point.

On the right, the point at which the AI got confused was further up relative to the left hand side one. The maze jutted out a bit more here than in the left, and this seemed to cause problems for the AI.

Also, note the way the path that the AI took was not the shortest distance, but had a tendency to hug the sides of the buildings. In the few pathfinding algorithms that I've written (not for ofp), the paths that I end up with look similar to this, with similar limitations. The cutoffs are also similar; any path that requires 'backtracking' (well, not backtracking but travelling in the reverse direction to any other direction in the path, provided that the end is not in reach) is unable to be found.

Id like to know exactly what the process that flashpoint AI uses to achieve this; keeping in mind BIS has one up on games that require a pre-set bunch of co-ordinates for their AI to follow- this process is dynamic, ie I could re-arrange the 'maze' in any order I liked and the AI would perform equally well.

Sorry for the rambling post, just thought I'd introduce another aspect of the AI for discussion

Blanco · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 23:04:08 »

Just had a great experience...

I put a full squad of middle east rebels against a desert squad of Hyk US soldiers on the wonderful Cat Afganistan island. (in one the towns). No fancy scripting, just 1 search & destroy waypoint for each group.
When the fight starts my team was on the winning hand and the rebels had to flee. I chased them and I found one guy on top of a roof! Not that existing but to get on that roof you need to climb a ladder.

I can't remember an officer gave me an order to climb a ladder?

Fragorl · « **Reply #28 on:** 29 Apr 2005, 06:51:01 »

He didn't start out on the roof? If not, that is unusual...

Was he shooting at you from his spot, or did he look a little disoriented, a la "why'd the sarge tell me to climb up here again?" Bang!

I can honestly say I've never seen an AI climbing a ladder. But, I've never tried the 'climb ladder action' either, would you believe. I will try it now .

Blanco · « **Reply #29 on:** 29 Apr 2005, 18:00:01 »

No, he didn't start on the roof, the starting point was more then 200-300m away from that roof
He killed me from that roof, I swear the bastard was wiating for me ,he knew exactly what he was doing.
When you place a search & destroy waypoint on top of a buiilding, the unit will enter the building and search almost every room and floor. (maybe climbing ladders too?)
But I did'nt place the waypoint on top of something.

Author Topic: Unusual AI behaviour? (Read 2880 times)

DBR_ONIX

GI-YO

bdfy1

bdfy1

bdfy1

bdfy1

bdfy1

Sitemap