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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 261975 times)

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Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #945 on: 26 Jun 2005, 01:24:48 »
@PT
So are you saying it increases the FPS having it set low in video options or it's just easier to play?

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #946 on: 26 Jun 2005, 07:42:48 »
Just a reminder:  the Terrain Detail should be set to Normal and left there

Goettschwan

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #947 on: 26 Jun 2005, 14:28:51 »
After reaching the lodge i got the first and second civilians, found the third, they are not that hard to find given that the civilians like wood huts  ;).
Ambushed another mgjeep convoy, used an intersection west of the hut where they change direction to do it which led me to use my ammo sparsely, only three handgrenades and two bursts for the lot :-)
Found the russian, wondered when he will tell me about the woman as i had read it here. Found out a bit later.

I appreciate the idea of reducing existing ammo trucks and crates, there are enough weapons everywhere, and this is not the "Me and my fifteen tanks"-Resistance expansion, this is a real resistance group. Have to go with what you've got.
I really really like that idea :-) For once i am not Jake the supersoldier with his chosen arsenal of doomsday devices  8)

It would actually be neat to limit, reduce(!) and then, from time to time, change the content of the ammo cases in la trinite  to have some "trading" going on. This way an M21 or any special weapons for that matter are a great prize and not something to collect on a known position. I have not been in chapoi or the airport, but being their HQ the weapons stock there has to be humongous seen how much they can leave in la trinite to trade.
As it is, i just collect my favourite loadout between two convoys.
I'd rather like to be rewarded for something with my favourite loadout after hours of using weapons i don't really like. I do not consider this forcing the player to do something he doesn't want. The strategy remains the same. The tactics may change, but Colonel fog and General Mud and Rain already limit the options pretty much to assault with silenced weapons or assault without 8).
Use handgrenades if you got no silencers.

@planck : as you are the only one to have a functioning ladder are you in a position to go back there after finding out about the woman and looking if the ladder still works ?
Me i found out about her, but i can't go back to that save as i did others in the meantime.
Would have liked to know if i can repeat this and use the ladder because i do NOT know about the woman.
@thobson :
Out of three wolf occasions i got one that repeated endlessly, the other two worked.
May it be that there is another error?

Your regroup script does not retain the commands like wait issued before, and a regroup will use fireteams according to the numbers, not the people.
This leads to the following: I got team read with me, team white is at the lodge.
I get the russian into the team, he has a white number. team read is 234, team white the rest. I tell the russian at the originial position (8) to be part of team red. if i group the team to have the russian in fifth position he will be a member of team white after the regroup, because 5 was a member of it. Hope i explained this comprehensively.
The problem is not that big, but as your regroup script erases my wait commands issued the teams try to reform immediatly, which has members of both teams running for the respective other position.
Can we have either the wait command if it was issued before regrouping, or a correct attribution to fireteam by character and not by number ? pleaaase  ;)
I really like the little comments and stories they tell you in the regroup screen. Love to see some buildup of a binding to those people.

I find that ofp behaves strange : if the AI goes to the haystack at the lodge they will be luckily until their hips in the concrete. The russian actually left his hut by walking through the wall and reentering through the wall behind me. I suppose this is Ofp as it is. Hope this will get better with BISs new projects.

On the map screen my radio has one entry first line and then others at the bottom. The gaps in-between click as if there would be something to click, is this planned or just Ofp as above ?

The medic calls to say he delivered everybody to the lodge; shouldn't this be radio talk and not an invisible voice next to me ?

I just survived three handgrenades at less than 10 meters distance, i had been on top of a slope, the grenades hit the slope and didn't do damage whatsoever, not even a "crater decal".


Thobson, i sure hope you are motivated and have enough time  ;)
Keep up the work, we all love it !
StG
« Last Edit: 26 Jun 2005, 14:40:24 by Goettschwan »

Offline CAS_Daniel

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #948 on: 26 Jun 2005, 15:37:52 »
Hi, just tried the mission, and its really cool!
Its obvious how much work you've put into it.
The only little niggles I've got is the painfully low FPS even with graphics on low (terrain on normal  ;)), and the weather settings - the depressing sky, low view distance and rain. Also, the tank scripts lag horribly.
But it can be very fun to play, and the mission idea is awesome!
Good job. I'll give a better update when I'm further on.  :)

EDIT: My specs are:
1.9GHz CPU
128Mb GeForce FX
1024Mb RAM
« Last Edit: 26 Jun 2005, 15:38:47 by CAS_Daniel »
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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #949 on: 26 Jun 2005, 15:38:31 »
>and this is not the "Me and my fifteen tanks"-Resistance expansion, this is a real resistance group.....

another two paragraphs of excellent reasoning...

I love it StG. Am with you 100% on this. I can repeat this mission over and over and over and over, again, based solely on my ability to spend HOURS collecting what *we* need.

Edit:

the more I think on this, the harder it is for me to reconcile that immense fragility we first encounter with a popgun and two magazines, against very rapidly attaining AT launchers or three. If Thob were to do anything here, I would immediately reduce the amount of ammo in the 3 loons killed at Tatyana, and continue from there, as in, ok, i get an m16 but it only has a single mag, and etc. Currently we have a very contradictory statement that 'each side doesn't have everything it needs'. Like hell. It's in abundance.


« Last Edit: 26 Jun 2005, 15:48:45 by Mikero »
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #950 on: 26 Jun 2005, 20:15:38 »
StG:
I certainly need to give more thought to the ammo position - and I will.

Quote
Out of three wolf occasions i got one that repeated endlessly, the other two worked.
May it be that there is another error?
 You mean it never ended or it went on for a long time?  It is possible for some to go on for a long time, but they should all finish eventually.  It is possible that two groups are there at the same time - could it have been that?

Quote
Your regroup script does not retain the commands like wait issued before, and a regroup will use fireteams according to the numbers, not the people.
It wil not retain instructions.  Basically what happens at the start of the script is all of Alexi's team leave the group and are only added back as you select them.  Interesting about the fireteams.  I am sorry but I will not be able to do anything about that.  I have no way of knowing even if fireteams have been set up so I can't keep units in the correct team.

Quote
I find that ofp behaves strange : if the AI goes to the haystack at the lodge they will be luckily until their hips in the concrete. The russian actually left his hut by walking through the wall and reentering through the wall behind me. I suppose this is Ofp as it is. Hope this will get better with BISs new projects.
If this were the worst of it I woul dbe Okay - it is the damned ladders that work and don't work, units that refuse to stay on the top floor of a building etc. that really annoy me.  Even setPosing units doesn't work repeatably.

Quote
On the map screen my radio has one entry first line and then others at the bottom. The gaps in-between click as if there would be something to click, is this planned or just Ofp as above ?
There are 10 radio slots 1 to 10 (you get the 10th by selecting 0).  The first line is radio 1 (Reorganise team), then there is a gap the size of which depends on what you have available to you.  But let us say you have already got the trip wires and fuses from LaT, then the next radion slot is 8 (toggle mines), then 9 (Mine Instructions) and 10 (save game).  The empty slots are 2 to 7 inclusive ( under this scenario)

Quote
he medic calls to say he delivered everybody to the lodge; shouldn't this be radio talk and not an invisible voice next to me ?
Yes.  This should have been a sideRadio so the text of the message should have appeared as a coloured bar at the lower left of your screen and then faded out over time.  Did it definitely not happen?  Could you have missed it?

Quote
Thobson, i sure hope you are motivated and have enough time
Thank you.  I must admit to a sense of humour failure today when units that are setPosed to locations for a cut scene seem to go to different places as the mood takes them.

CAS_Daniel
I am nit sure what you mean about the tank scripts.  At 1.9GHz CPU I am afraid you are in for a torrid time with this mission.  I have a 3.2Ghz CPU and at one stage on my latest run through I got as low as 4fps at one point.


Mikero:
Quote
the more I think on this, the harder it is for me to reconcile that immense fragility we first encounter with a popgun and two magazines, against very rapidly attaining AT launchers or three. If Thob were to do anything here, I would immediately reduce the amount of ammo in the 3 loons killed at Tatyana, and continue from there, as in, ok, i get an m16 but it only has a single mag, and etc. Currently we have a very contradictory statement that 'each side doesn't have everything it needs'. Like hell. It's in abundance.
You are quite right.  I need to think on it.


ALL:
I was going to issue v1.22 today.  The main changes being:
The ladder
The rain
Environmental sounds problems fixed
A long list of other stuff.

But guess what?  The bloody cutscene where the first lot of civis get back to the lodge is now screwed up.  People don't stand where they used to so camera shots can be blocked when bodies that should not be there are now in the way.  I might get it to work and the next time it is screwed up.


Offline CAS_Daniel

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #951 on: 26 Jun 2005, 21:52:49 »
Quote
I have a 3.2Ghz CPU and at one stage on my latest run through I got as low as 4fps at one point.
Ah ok, hadn't realised how demanding the mission could would be. How about a version for lower end PCs without rain and tank fire scripts?  ;)
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #952 on: 26 Jun 2005, 22:16:12 »
CAS_Daniel:
What is your OFP benchmark?  I can certainly turn those effects off for low benchmark levels.

The time I got 4fps was pretty unusual and I am trying to make sure It doesn't happen again.

All:
I like the idea of simulating the trading.  So the contents of the ammo crates at LaT depend on who was last there, and the ammo trucks in the convoys have different contents on their northern and southern journeys.  For example all sniper weaponry moves south and all silenced weaponry moves north.  This could get very complicated - and very confusing.  Most players will visit LaT and based on what they find there they will assume there are no sniper rifles or silenced weapons (in this example) and not think to look there again.  If they do go there again and find things different they will assume some glitch in the mission (or their memeory).

I could even make it so the player stealing things at LaT looks like a short delivery from one side and repeated short deliveries prompt a reaction from the side being cheated.  The result would be realistic - but I fear utterly confusing to the player.
« Last Edit: 26 Jun 2005, 22:19:17 by THobson »

Offline wcrvieira

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #953 on: 26 Jun 2005, 23:21:03 »
Well...

@XCess - Well it helps my pc! At least now I don't play with 4FPS!


@Topic

Current Status:

Reviewing Mission "Abandoned Armies":

Specs - OFP 1.96 pure (no mods), benchmark 5338, Veteran mode with Super AI

Intro - Loved it, pretty nice those letters, nice background story I really loved it. Speechless!

Briefing - Ok. Links worked. Background link only said what was said in intro. Liked sound.

Notes - :D Nice...sound and text

Gear - Of course you can't choose. OK! (no HKG3A4 for me this time)


Mission - Started mission and as many ofpec people complained about lag I left fraps on. But the bastard didn't work.
Restarted... fraps did work in the first minute I had a average FPS of 20. Damn I am in Cadet mode.
Restart.
OK now in veteran and fraps not working... haaa the mutha fu****!! Ignored.
Started climbing that hill, weather is perfect, noticed it will be hard to be spotted and to spot enemies. Don't really care.
As I use this game as a true military simulator it will be good to prepare myself.
Oh..no 4x speed. Ok I understand.
Heared tanks and explosions maybe from East...as they where too far didn't care.
What a climb here...
Fence, rounded it and found a hole in it... more 5 steps and found a house with a fire in it. I suspected enemy presence around so I was careful... used my CZ75 and neutralised those 2 buggies.
Watched cutscene..nice voice work and dialogue... she was a bit stupid but ok.
Killed those 2 enemies and took AK74 as it has automatic fire option and I hate M16.
Took police jeep and rearmed my CZ75. Headed at full throttle to SE by road (suicide move I guess). Passed by a squad with a guy with a banner or flag or whatever. They didn't shoot me I didn't care bout them. Ran over AT soldier though.
Full throttle in road, a bit of lag made me loose track and then when I get back on track BAM! Crashed jeep against road block! Saw american soldier in safe mode looking at me...he didn't react. As I got off the jeep killed him but in 2 seconds a soldier killed me from west. [DEAD]

[RETRY 1]
Again with jeep headed to SE to lodge but this time off-road. With my wonderful guide system...a compass and a watch (lol).
Nice...storm and foggy. I really like the weather in OFP.
Wow a high mountain...and I hit my jeep against a tree. Why is that all trees are in my way? OK! Now on foot!
Now I am lost. Must have missed the lodge with the fog. So I decided to continue headed SE and head to La Trinite to find a ride. Or I am near Larche or La Trinite. But I have no idea where the fu** I am!
OK! No fear I continue running for 35 minutes (real time) and no roads or stuff like that.
A thunder... then other... in the flash I saw a patrols of around 10 guys running towards me. [Time to think. Hit ESC button... Shoot them? me against 10. Don't shoot?hmmm...decided not to shoot...terrible odds to me]
Didn't shoot they didn't see me... good! With Super AI we must be always with 2x more care.
Saw a road. MG with light... he didn't see me. Good!
Prone went to a bush, when I was going to shoot it...he saw me and BAM! I was dead! [DEAD]

[RETRY 2]
Jesus my pc is too hot. Almost burning.
So when heat here in Portugal "calms" down I'll try again. Don't wanan fry my motherboard or stuff like that.
But this mission is straight to the "BEST MISSIONS EVER" folder in OFP/mission!!! Great stuff here THobson! I am Loving it!

I'll report back when I can!
Cya
NBR

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #954 on: 27 Jun 2005, 00:48:46 »
>reorganise problems.

Compared with the sheer ability to reorganise at all, the niggles are (excuse me) inconsequential. Considering that most players who use it, will use it, about 4 times max in the game. The need to additionally set up previous conditions that they established is 'ok'. It's not tediously repetetive 'must do' stuff, every 5 minutes. I also believe that at the time of re-organsing is the quiet, reflective times, the what-to-do-next stuff. Where it's highly likely that in addition to reorganising you'll be re-arming, setting white and blue groups and etc's. A bug yes, but imho, can be safely ignored.

>ladders

I did a race through Thob to try and emulate StG? (forget who) who managed to get up the ladder _before_ Sergei. No such luck. It would seem that anyone who manages to achieve it is simply on the clipping wall. I've fallen out of the building plenty, but at the right vector, I guess I'd wing it and get to the top. Important bit, imho, is that it's not buggy, works sometimes, doesn't other. It just, doesn't work, period.

>Medic side radio,

worked as you described. There's so much going on in this mission that many things are illusionary, appearing to appear when they actually occurred some time later or before. (I should bloody well know, had to go back a savegame or three to check what I thought happenned, didn't! I wont be alone there!)

@Thob

Quote
I must admit to a sense of humour failure today


good, you've made my day. ;D

Quote
seem to go to different places as the mood takes them

Good. Now you know what you've done to all of us with this creation of yours. Feel OUR pain Thob. I think I've encountered every god-damn enemy squad of yours in different places 'as the mood takes them'

Sergei as you know is 'red'. Would it be possible to use a GCivilianFakeE to get round this? Or, do you like the thematic, the making player aware stuff, that he's got a mixed bag.

@Xcess

(gee I hope I've got the right person)

>the 3rd civilians are in their favorite building

There are no buildings "east of the woods on the other side of Trinite"

@Thob

another undocumented feature.

I can drive all over the island and kill as many loons that suit me with the police jeep, they never respond. Big bad trouble however if the Vulcan or a Tank spot me. My road-kills are unceremoniously stopped.
Just say no to bugz

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #955 on: 27 Jun 2005, 01:13:59 »
@PT

Quote
THE BEST MISSION EVER

Nah. It's better than that.

>My PC is frying

Damn Thobson, how did he do that? We've asked him to put in the smell of rotting corpses too, but so far, no luck.

@Thob

>Confusion with changing ammo contents

Easily fixed.

Alter the lodge cutscene text where the troops are describing the army arangements, They already mention T3, already mention their 'limited' weapons, and it would be 'easy' for them to say they've been to T3 once or twice on raids and found different weapons at different times. Quite sure you can be much more subtle than that, but this is where player confusion can be killed stone dead. Btw, I'd be evil enough to randomly load in Kozlice's !!!!!. make the player scream.

Edit:

on reflection, the voiceovers should be done at 2nd civil time when it's the most likeliest time the player will inspect T3 and the 'conversation' will be fresh in the mind.


« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2005, 01:16:31 by Mikero »
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Offline wcrvieira

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #956 on: 27 Jun 2005, 02:12:27 »
@Mikero

Hey I didnt say it is the best mission ever. It is one of the best.
I have a folder that is named... BEST MISSIONS EVER
And this mission is there. Only 4 have that status!

>pc is frying

It is not THobson fault... here in Portugal are 35º and more... so my laptop cant play much OFP straight!


Cya
NBR

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #957 on: 27 Jun 2005, 02:24:47 »
>It is not THobsons fault.

it is *always* Thobson's fault.

I could be out in the real world if it weren't for this mission of his.
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Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #958 on: 27 Jun 2005, 02:52:57 »
Quote
There are no buildings "east of the woods on the other side of Trinite"

Shed not a building?It's there.
« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2005, 02:53:38 by XCess »

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #959 on: 27 Jun 2005, 03:01:07 »
Quote
There are no buildings "east of the woods on the other side of Trinite"

Emmmmm......yes Mikero, there is a hut near the woods east of La Trinite..........full of ex-civilians.   ;D


Planck
I know a little about a lot, and a lot about a little.