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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 262621 times)

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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #825 on: 15 Jun 2005, 23:55:18 »
Inside the hut?

EDIT: Probably.  Sorry just checked the code, I now understand - not to worry. not mission critical for you.  Once again Pilot you have flushed out a great cock up on my part.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 00:00:54 by THobson »

Offline Pilot

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #826 on: 15 Jun 2005, 23:57:59 »
Yeah

BTW, I am using V1.2.  Does this have anything to do with it?

Henderson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #827 on: 15 Jun 2005, 23:58:42 »
Henderson:  So you got up the ladder!!!!  How?  Planck's persistence or some other way?  

I..uh...walked I guess. :P I just turned walked morde on, and went up very slowly up the ladder kind of at the edge. When I made it to the top I almost fell through the floor but I ran and made it up. Was kind of wierd, and took me a few tries, heh. But, something funky happened with the cut scene. Me and the lady suddenly warped down stairs when we had the convo, but the camera was still focused on the attic.
« Last Edit: 15 Jun 2005, 23:59:11 by Henderson »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #828 on: 16 Jun 2005, 00:02:52 »
Quote
But, something funky happened with the cut scene. Me and the lady suddenly warped down stairs when we had the convo, but the camera was still focused on the attic
Bollocks.  I think I should just go away and shoot myself.

Pilot: see post 825.  I was typing slowly while you all were relplying,

The only difference between v1.2 and v1.21 is that in v1.2 if the wolves start howling - they never stop.  No this screw up has been  in there for a long time.

EDIT:  If you have a save before you get to Houdan - go to the 2nd civis first.  That is how stupid I was.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 00:12:07 by THobson »

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #829 on: 16 Jun 2005, 00:05:51 »
@PIlot

You rotten evil mongrel. You killed my Russian !!!!!

No doubt Thob will fix this choreograph, but you needed to drop civils off to trigger next phase (afaik)

@Hob

>Trinite lag

No. It is war starts lag, coupled with standard T3 lag that's always been there with large 2 x concentrations of convoy. A sort of triple whammy. No lag when I attack a single convoy. Lag if both make an appearance AND get out. Tripple whammy if I destroy a convoy. This lag persists at Larche, war is on, AND a presence of vehicles looking for me in that area. In version 1.1 this was a 'gentle heaviness' a sixth sense feeling to get the hell away. At 1.21 it is lag.

Sergei context voicovers are all correct (afaik), he mentions trinite, and/or mentions war has started, contextually. (MUCH better than the strange "they're fighting each other")

My Russian knows they started fighting already, because he has a radio. He uses it to help him sneak to Houdan at night for the old woman.

>Bleating team-mates

forget it Thob, it's thouroughly fine, this contextual stuff you've put into team selection all works and is excellent.

>You should see Irena telling you

I did, then a brief switch to black screen. What you aren't saying to us, Thob, is whether there is, or isn't a map scene or not.

>I can't claim credit for (personalities)

Actually, you can. The choice of a woman, civilians, mixed in with standard troops, causes this effect to be distinct. You wouldn't spot the glaring differences if all of them were one type only.

>No added troops from losses.

is this also true of the umm err "person who heals pow's?" I got a contextually correct voiceover btw.

>dissapointed I couldn't put up flag

for me, it made sense that I couldn't and would have made sense if i could. I think most would consider a bug if you could, as it's not 'part of' the map-briefing, and should not be. It's just a lovely piece of added authenticity as you have it right now or any way you want to mix it.

>Mist

can you state the one that causes the problem of ai seeing each other?. Is it mist, fog, or rain. I'm never quite sure. The worst, is any 'vehicle' that has zoom, sniper, tank, or Mgun nest. Technically fair, that they can see further, but I cannot ever see them. They already have a zoom advantage against us.

>Town above chapoi.

There was an 'indication' of firing at Chapoi down in the valley, and sporadic. No noises in around this area. Two dead soldiers on west side IN town. I suspect if I'd stayed long enough, Northrons would have 'made a sound' as they blew up <>. Certainly this was true of 1.1 . Snipers had been dealt with by me much earlier.

>Sniper rifles in T3.

I have a dread of that arsenal cabin, didn't stick around. Wolves assisted me in this decision <> (*very* nice radiation signs btw, and nice roadblocks)

Your warnings about tanks and etceteras are *excellent*. I cannot think of a better (tm) way of immersing this information other than the way you did it.

@Plank.

Nope. I lay the mine, I can't disarm it. Satchel, yes, not the mine.


@Thob

Delays.

I think the engine staggers in background. This would explain for me yuriclone and some other details where things happen after the event.

The Worst for me is a Godzilla at Chapoi we nailed the bugger with 4 x AT. It blew to pieces, some lovely fire script. And THEN a soldier jumped out and grenaded us all (one with a red flag). I reloaded severally on this, each time, tank blew up so hard all bushes in vicinity were shredded, and THEN a soldier leaps out of burning wreck.

Similarly a Vulcan in Dourdan <> Houdan corridor. It was damaged, no crew. On the two separate occaisions (game time wise) I got into it, 'magically' an enemy squad appeared near it. There was a dead troop truck parked next to it, and I suspect the engine spawned these soldiers out of that truck (all visuals indicated they were dead inside). No amount of waiting around would make these people appear, but getting into the vulcan meant curtains for us. Hardly worth fixing but in your scripts, if there is engine delay this construct 'works'

if <condition> then
  if <same identical condition> then
Just say no to bugz

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #830 on: 16 Jun 2005, 00:12:53 »
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Bollocks.  I think I should just go away and shoot myself.

Good. A relief to us all.
Just say no to bugz

Henderson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #831 on: 16 Jun 2005, 01:09:35 »
To change the flags just clear the area and have at least one of your team with you.  I am going to change this so you can change the flag yourself.


Hmmm, I've been in Dourdan for so long now I've defeated 5 counterattacks, but none of my guys have changed the flag. :(

Offline Pilot

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #832 on: 16 Jun 2005, 02:26:30 »
Oh great, do you mean I killed the russian who tells me what's going on?  Fan-friggin-tastic! :P  

Oh well, shit happens

Unfortunately, I don't have a savegame before my venture into Houdan.  Oh well...

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #833 on: 16 Jun 2005, 02:27:37 »
@Henderson

Yep, Dourdan is one of the corridor focal points, chances are, you will never hold the village long enough to change the flag, or even be given an opportunity to do so, pick arudy eg or larche or somewhere 'out of the way'

@Pilot

>oh well I dont have a savegame

Good. I hope pestilence and the death of a thousand curses descend on you for killing my favorite team mate. ;D
How dare you find a bug no-one has ever discovered before.

« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 02:31:08 by Mikero »
Just say no to bugz

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #834 on: 16 Jun 2005, 03:24:13 »
@Mikero: Lol

Thob, this damn fog is p***in me off now. I keep getting shot by unseen gunmen even though i'm spinnin 360  a lot out of paranoia of unseen gunmen. Agh. Guess I should crawl more... but then I got shot laying in a bush at Trinite so maybe it won't help... and I WAS in he bush properly this tme  ::)

@Boring wait- I was waiting in Trinite to watch the fireworks.. I too know the tenseness of waiting to spring death on a convoy. I remember it fondly from my experience in Dourdan on the first version. Hiding from that t80 was fun :)

...and... why did you do it THob.. why couldn't I have had a little more time  to save those civilians! Lol.. I found them wearing lots of red and hugging floorboards, and I got the relevant voice over.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #835 on: 16 Jun 2005, 07:00:59 »
Mikero:
 
Quote
>You should see Irena telling you

I did, then a brief switch to black screen. What you aren't saying to us, Thob, is whether there is, or isn't a map scene or not.
Sorry.  At no time in any of the scenes  do I force the map, so the bit where Irena says: "Yes Andropov has control of the north of the islandâ€Â¦." should have the camera looking at her the whole time

As you have guessed, there is a possibility of getting a replacement for one member of your team

All:
Mist/Fog/Rain:  I fear this is going to have to be a feature of OFP that I cannot work round.  My understanding is:  There is no mist, only varying levels of fog and rain.  Rain especially heavy rain reduces the visibility of the player significantly - but I suspect has no or little effect on AI's visibility.  Fog seems to reduce the AI's visibility even more than it reduces the player's visibility.  I may be wrong, but this would explain what I have noticed and what I understand you all have been telling me.

There does appear to be too much going on in the background that is causing the engine to be less crisp than it needs to be.  I will try and use fewer triggers for a start.

Henderson:
Flag at Dourdan, I have changed it in testing.  I am still struggling to get into an unoccupied Dourdan myself (it keeps being re-occupied) - I will check the parameters in the script.  It is probabaly as Mikero suggested that other enemy are still close enough to prevent it happening, but maybe I have set the range too wide.

Pilot:
Don't worry about the Russian.  He is not mission critical.  If he were I would have made it impossible to kill him.   This is just another way to do the mission.

Xcess:
Quote
why couldn't I have had a little more time  to save those civilians!
Because in v1.00 I got a lot of complaints about having to take a third lot of civis back to the lodge.  Well done.  Glad you liked it.  I suspect it is the triggers for these voiceovers that is killing the mission.  I will try and use one trigger but move it about depending on where Alexi is, currently each trigger is a precise shape and size, of course I would lose that.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 07:05:16 by THobson »

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #836 on: 16 Jun 2005, 12:01:31 »
Bah, gloom, I finished the mission, sob.

Cannot tell you about outro because I had a crash to desktop.

Took an age to clean out Chapoi, I ended up getting bored witless with this fog thing so took a break and walked to La Riviere. Took out three nasties and lo and behold that godawful sneaky Godzilla either followed me, or came hunting the noise. Took him out with X many AT launchers.  He was the same Godzilla at Chapoi and, that red flag soldier leapt out again AFTER the bang.
A bmp minced up to look at its friend and 3 soldiers too. All went down, but not happy that three loons appeared to follow my footsteps.

Went back and snapped and zipped and banged everything that was crawling. Not much by this time. Had thoughts of leaving blackops alone and going over to investigate how the North was doing, but black ops made the decision for me. By the time I got the evil bastard, there were no troops to surrender, and at no time did i ever see any again. Dissapointing for me, only because that visual was terrific last version.

Nice voiceover on officer's bodies. Back of my mind stuff, that I'd been told about them. Absolutely necessary to re-authenicate that with another message. Nice.

Think you will have an undocumented feature here with the flag. #2 never quite managed it. I had to drive over all the fences first to let him in.

Initially I was going to do my airport crawl but watch was already 5 pm and i didn't fancy Nvg. since I was sick to death of this fog and wanted no more poor visibility.

Armed up all the fighting tanks, repaired them and all. Nasty bit where one ran out of fuel when i tried to drive it to tanker 5 meters away. This looks like another engine bug Thob, once empty, you cannot refill. I sure tried.

This was a nice touch, and I suspect you've done similar at airport. As in giving the player an opportunity to finally use heavy armour, providing that is, he takes the care to repair etc. That bit took some time, to re-organising the rowdy mob.

No dramas back to airport, no loons anywhere, stopped at each hamlet and got #2 to put our flag back on. Went to Vigny just to see, no voiceover for sister. Would have liked to have gone to extreme North West, suspect you had a little present waiting there, but darkness was closing in and mountain climb prevented me. Magic atmosphere as we drive through all the old battles, each wreck and each body of loons re-called, ah the memories. Hard to concentrate and realise all these things were in THIS mission, not other missions plural.

(spotted another 'mad women' blistered and bleeidng in Chapoi)

My AI is driving well and barely misses a beat (except medic in a repair truck) I just let him do the best he could and didn't need it.

Drove, or rather rammed straight into airport from St Louis as a 3 x 3. Same magic atmosphere Thob, of we not they, are going to win this. Nothing stops us now. A feeling of sorrow for the Northrons, a feeling they're shitting themselves.

Carefullly crawled up last few meters and blew any rocket guys away before they had much chance. By good fortune, a heat missile took out andropov. I think he was doing a runner, not sure.

As per Chapoi, moment leader dies, they all give up. I wasn't aware I had done that much attrition to the north. Perhaps the southrons did it for me.

All in all, end was an anti-climax because it was all over red rover, quick and fast. Am certain it would have been anything but fast had I done the airport crawl. Personally, I like this bit, giving player a chance to change the tempo rather than a repeat of Chapoi or a repeat of the Airport (depending on who goes belly up first)

But, the depressing bit Thobson is this version is unplayable. The Mgunners and the Snipers have an unbeatable advantage of about 5 meters visual. No player can last against them. I was dead, often, long before I could see them. They just shot out of the 'fog'. It's depressing when you cannot shoot back because there's nothing to shoot. Am convinced I would have done better just letting my entire squad die and leave me to crawl around. Timewise I would have finished it faster sooner better, without the reloading against dead friendlies. You have to do something here, sadly, perhaps as dreadful as removing the fog altogether. It's just not playable. Perhaps and hopefully rain doesn't cause this issue.

In version 1.1 mist/fog/rain was our friend. It protected us against them. Now, its reversed. Perhaps we could 'learn' like so many other things to avoid it, in the few parts of the island where it happens. It's happening everywhere at moment.

Just say no to bugz

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #837 on: 16 Jun 2005, 15:07:09 »
Mikero:
First of all - Well Done.
Quote
I had a crash to desktop
That concerns me.  I would be interested in knowing at what point this happened if you can recall.  Also I would very much like know if others experience anything similar.

I have had loons lie down right next to me in the fog and not see me.  I think it is the rain that the AI can see through - unless you all have a different experience.

Interesting how different things can be, macguba dealt with things in a very similar way and yet when he got to the airport he had a torrid time.

So tanks with no fuel cannot be refuelled!!  I am getting a bit sick of having to write scripts to deal with this sort of OFP issue.  I have already had to do it for the rearming.

On the flag changing at Chapoi,  With all that wire about loons just can't find their way in or out.  I have a timer on the flag changing and if the guy is not close enough after a certain time the flag changes anyway.  I will have a look to see if the delay is too long, or if I can do it in a different way.

If you have a recent save game and have the time and inclination I would be interested to know if you are able to repair and rearm any of the damaged tanks that must be littering the place.  That is those tanks that started off operational not those in for repair.  What I need to know is: have the standard rearm/repair/refuel actions gone the same way as the climb ladder and disable mine actions.  Only if you get the chance.  I am now alternating my time between a full run through and fixing all the issues you guys have found.  In my version I have several candidate tanks I just need to get rid of a few unfriendlies.

There are quite a few things you have not mentioned so I think I might have overdone some of my understatements.  At least that is better than making things too obvious.

Thanks again for the input and the effort.  Already I have another mountainous to-do list.

EDIT:
I have just run a test in which I ran a tank to zero fuel.  I then drove a fuel truck up to is and was able to refuel it.  I presume you were able to refuel the other tanks?  So it looks like it might be a sporadic problem.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 18:44:46 by THobson »

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #838 on: 16 Jun 2005, 18:22:55 »
Quick thought -  the ultra heavy rain/fog make the mission 100% unplayabe with llauma sky pack.. not your fault but a shame. Damn that llauma  for putting the rain mod in :(

Also.. I REALLY don't like the destryed buildings... they look like sh*t, they cause extra clipping problems and i suspect they cause lag too.. Probably gonna have a thousand people disagreeing with me on this but it's just my opinion. Are they destroyed in scripts? I  guess so lol... If it's only me thast hates em I'll just remove the script I spose.
« Last Edit: 16 Jun 2005, 18:26:23 by XCess »

lilwillie_WI

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #839 on: 16 Jun 2005, 19:07:14 »
well, some extra time playing last night.

Larche. Setup on the south ridge with the team spread at the base. snuck in and laid some AP mines along the flanks knowing the usual strageler would pop someone on a flank move.

Clipped off a sniper round and everyone came running. Had a tough time, getting smoked myself for hanging around the same place to long to just not picking up guys coming the way the came.

Did manage a kill with AP, one guy did the run around on me. Was about ready to enter the village when a 3 jeep patrol sped threw, with that I said screw it and waited a moment, then a convoy passed. Finally rolled in about 9:30 am and cleaned the place out. Back at camp have two trucks fully stocked with weapons, sent russkie to scout posistions out and refitted the team to take Arudy.

Arudy, what a disastear. After getting sick of lucky shots ::) from the enemy I setup my team around the rocks. creeped in and fired off some rounds into the patrol. Then played with them some and lead them to a ambush. And managed to be killed by friendly fire ::) The rain is heavy again and the fog has the sight line down. It's about 10:15 am and after another assualt on the town I let it go to long and a jeep patrol entered town and proceeded to give me a large .50 hole in the mid section.

No play problems or bugs threw this time in the morning. The fog makes fighting tough but challenging. I've learned to only fire a few rounds and seak a new OP. Fire again and move.

Don't know what the "Yuriclone" bug people are talking about is because my trucks are empty and never have had a problem with getting in or out.

The Russkie is turning out to be a great scout. He seems to pick up vehicles further out then the resistance soldiers. but maybe that's just me thinking up a reason to not off him.

Once i clear Arudy and pillage it's belongings i am going to setup a ambush to get a trio of jeeps. Thinking three snipers on a ridge somewhere, me on a flank with a HK and once the snipers engage and the jeeps hopefully halt in my area I will come from the rear and take the gunners down fast and hard. Maybe give a 60 gunner to my rear to cover fire anyone jumping out, if he refrains from pasting the jeeps....

Also contemplating a boat run to the island with the airstrip, if I have enough fuel. Wonder if it is inhabited? Maybe even to the military base island..

Glad for savegames :)