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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 264005 times)

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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #465 on: 04 Apr 2005, 04:52:23 »
episode 15

Airport III apres Andropov

There's a meataphorical bandage around my head, I can feel it. My poor little group are hurting, I can feel that too. We're huddled up in Andropov's tent area. It's the only safe cover we've got. The smoke is drifting overhead, I'm so dazed, I'm flinching from fire sparks that will never hit me. I cannot take these buggers on again so soon. It's 13:15 mist is gone, that laggy feeling hits, makes me seasick now. Ever so faint, I can hear them, Armour is coming. Southrons? Northrons? Is it Northrons at Chapoi who've broken their siege and are coming back? Dunno. Wish I were at Chapoi now. Distant memories of a base camp where it's safe.

I can't fight if I can't examine my squad. I've got to get away and regroup. I can't lose a single one of them, no time to check their ammo count. It's getting quite personal, I care now, that they survive. Deep doodoo time again. I hit a savegame. Panic decision, but it's all I've got, can't handle the St Louis episode again i'm at my limit, I'm exhausted as a player. Better start from here, as bad as it is. I've an empty m16, I have to risk it. Hunt an M21 and watch hills. One last time squad, please, one last time.

Fate decides for me, grabbing an M21 takes me closer to the other fuel station and away from Tanky noise, one last time squad, one last time. #4 grab the svd, you can at least be a pack mule.

The large squad at fuel station detect our presence, they dont go alert, they go savage. Am so desperate to get a reprieve I empty nearly 40 rounds of M21 into them while they remain bunched up. Bodies everywhere. The squad whack stragglers, they whack an AT guy coming over NORTH runway. ok god not more? Surely not from there?

Never hang around mikero, never. Get far away from the hillside too. We race through the fuel station towards desert. Anything that comes at us in the desert has very poor odds. I'm heading for the lighthouse, boulders first. I risk re-arming my squad as we race, not sure everyone's got all they need, they've got much more than they had.

Peace, calm, quiet. I examine my squad. Not bad, not great, not bad, pretty good in fact.

Win battles lose wars Mikero. Finish off the Northrons and you're on your own. Leave 'em be. Then again that t80 was it repairable? Scope the runway, no tanky noises. Can I get more? Damn damn, another what-to-do. Someone else be Generallissimo, the pay cheque isn't there. Is everyone healed? I just dunno.

I kick Fido for some inspiration.
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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #466 on: 04 Apr 2005, 08:41:07 »
Episode 16

Airport IV.


That's right I have to go back for the most embarassing reason. I have to check the #@(_(+_@#$$ flagpole. I dont know who Northrons are. Most battles I've had, could have been either. Stupid, stupid me.

No resistance coming in, an aggressive Bradley is on patrol south runway. #2 takes it out 450 meters with Gustave. This surprised me. I rearm, and generally crawl around buildings, lots of individual nasties coming from south, beach, and hillside. Singles and pairs but nothing dramatic. squad spotting everything. Wait for a quiet moment get my squad properly armed, mash tent etc, all while a few more pairs / singles making desultory runs either at, or away from us, or both. T80 is skittish and keeping way down south. It may even have gone on patrol to St louis not sure, am sure, it will return. It wont come near my 4 AT people. Have the impression enemy soldiers would form up into squads if only they could meet up. My troops never let it happen (it would explain why some enemy change course in mid-stream, and go looking for friends)

Decide to repair T80, fine, back him out of wedge and have just little time to line up a southern sweep. My squad have or are keeping enemy ai well away from me. 1st go, I get zapped, I backed out too early, too many AT soldiers or at least one, and T80 finishes me off. 2nd go, I'm ready, hit him hard while still a remote silhouette, two more shots at him vs one on me and its over.

Then, welcome to hell. The enemy come streaming over hillside in two separate waves (NE / SE) it's all i can do with heat missiles to keep up. Only protection I have is fact i'm in road between building complexes making any direct hit on me a bit hard. #8 (my russian) goes down to a sniper, I'm too busy with very unpleasant people with big long tank busting guns to worry about lone snipers. At same time, Northrons give up. I decide to leave it that way. Truth of matter is I'd just hit a cheatsave, the thought of backing up to my retry was too much.

Then they come pouring in, un armed. I am staggered, I mean I'm jaw dropped, I mean I can't believe how many there are. Perhaps as many as 2 dozen minimum, perhaps as many as 50. I don't know because right then and there the southrons come in from direct south. One retry later i'm in M2 nest looking south and waiting, we get them all. This while everyone's bleating about enemy at 50 on my right flank. They've surrendered dummies.

All goes quiet, T80 gets medicine, I wait awhile, I actually swarm the squad around the surrendered troops to stop them 'identifying'. We re-arm regroup. Load up in various vehicles, T80 in lead. Deeply unhappy about this, have bad experience and no good ones, of vehicle play.

Off to St Louis and south. I figure so much carnage that direction, unlikely to have more concentrated troops, and last thing I can do now is risk the mountains with snipers everywhere. Armour it is then. (medic bmp holding precious human cargo). Have quick thoughts of circling all way westward into goisse and dismiss it. I have no troop trucks.

Fido gets a pat on head.

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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #467 on: 04 Apr 2005, 09:57:00 »
Episode 17

'Dead' South to Chapoi


I pass thru St louis, Trinite, Dourdan with no sign of enemy activity. I leave my trucks to catch me up and get as far as the Le Port/Chapoi Tjunction and wait for them. 6/7 in the bmp are doing just fine, 4 is a cretin, and 2 is miles behind.

The drive is spectacular in 3d view, i stay as commander and just watch #5 my gunner swirling around after anything that moves (I chose her because she was a very bad girl, several times when it counted)

4, the brain dead cretin get's injured (he's in repair truck) who's the cretin to let him drive that!

I figure it's him driving directly at rocks. He calls out he spots a lone soldier around dourdan but otherwise makes it ok. Not so #2, he's way back having a hard time of it, he calls out multiple contacts at dourdan, then silence.

Reload.

I wait for them at Dourdan. I'm watching #4 crash into another house and get out of tank to shoot him there and then. Just before I do, extreme east on rocks, over they come, a full squad of nasties who must have been on dourdan/houdan beach, most carrying launchers. They get one ping at the T80 which only has #5 in it, (i'm about to slaughter #4 and offer his body to any hell that would take him), when #5 opens up and gets them all. My kind of gal.

#2 is just as painful in his other repair truck. I eventually get them somewhere near me and take out 3 A/t soldiers coming down out of mountains (a cheatsave involved)

decide to put 4 in as passenger of a single repair truck, i take over driving and let #2 into tank. I scream out of there with my armour trying to catch up. T80 ambushed at Houdan in similar scenario but I leave them to pick off what they can. They do, we eventually end up at Le port turn off after agonising waits where tank / bmp cannot get their respective acts together I repair up and really can't be bothered with this vehicle stuff, it's too painfull.

I gain a savegame at this point and decide to use it. 0 left. It's 14:30, mist is closing and I'm pissed at this vehicle buisiness. (NOT authors fault)

I'm keen to use tank at Chapoi, just for the hell of it, so I will make one try and one try only to scream up to vantage point before town and take it from there. If there's any more nonsense am gonna use the retry and walk in. Bad mood. I really should have walked the south road and *enjoyed* what came.

Fido, where are you?

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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #468 on: 04 Apr 2005, 11:39:13 »
Late afternoon break for me.

Quote
Have the impression enemy soldiers would form up into squads if only they could meet up. My troops never let it happen (it would explain why some enemy change course in mid-stream, and go looking for friends)
Actually at this point there is a script running that is doing exactly that.  Small groups are joining to form larger ones.  That could be causing the change of direction.  

This was developed from the script I wrote for this mission.

mikero:  You are making all the hours I spent thinking about it, making it and testing it all worthwhile

EDIT:

Bye the way.  The briefing should show you which flag belongs to each side.


Quote
It's getting quite personal, I care now, that they survive.
Just re-read this.  That is what it is like for me.  Whenever any of them go down I remember who they are and where I first met them.
« Last Edit: 04 Apr 2005, 16:39:57 by THobson »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #469 on: 05 Apr 2005, 01:53:56 »
An over night reflection on the av/ap mines.

The problem seems to be the accidental placing of the mines because these actions are top of the list.  How about if I put a 'safe' action above them?  For example I could move the mine instructions from being a radio command to being the top action of the players list.

Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #470 on: 05 Apr 2005, 02:11:22 »
Conceptually, that isn't good.     The radio menu is being used for "external" acts such as savegames:   you are not immersed in the game when you use the radio menu, for a second you are a rational thinking being playing a game.

The Action menu is in the game, and that's where the mines should be.    It is really annoying that the user added action is always top, but that's just a game feature.    It happens in all missions with Actions, so most people are fairly used to it, and also to the occasional cock up.  

It's one of these red herrings of beta testing:  people mention it becuase they are frustrated and annoyed at the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should change anything.

If you do want to change something, then I suggest a safe Action is added first so that the mines are second.    This may involve inventing a largely pointless Action, but there's nothing wrong with that.   It could be a phone call to your mum, a healing script, get the weather forecast, a sound file giving a rousing speech to your loons or a mumble to yourself, or whatever.
Plenty of reviewed ArmA missions for you to play

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #471 on: 05 Apr 2005, 02:48:42 »
Or maybe it could pop up a hint box, reminding you how many of each mine you have left.   ::)  ::)


Planck
I know a little about a lot, and a lot about a little.

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #472 on: 05 Apr 2005, 02:53:49 »
Episode 18
Chapoi west

We park up, at the crop / farm area west of Chapoi. #5 immediately takes out a Vulcan that's in the area.
I'm in repair truck with #2/4 as they were quite hopeless at driving the thing

I get into T80 and with all other vehicles emptied, we 'walk' our way towards chapoi. T72 comes up over lip of ridge and he dies, whacked by one blast from the T80 and 3 from the squad!!!

I inch forward towards lip, mist is very thick, no more than 50 meter view. I get near lip and am taken out by a T80 or 72 from forest other side of chapoi. There is NO WAY i can see him. As commander, he's not even showing up on radar. I reload check again, this vehicle at least can see thru mist. I cannot, all out, retry, we're crawling in.

I assume I could have played this with #5 and crew manning the T80 'she' would have been on even footing with the other tank, they would have 'seen' each other. I chose, and will choose in future, not to play any vehicle. I wish now I had walked the southern road, it would have been a series of fantastic firefights and cunning vs cunning. Am not sore about the game, just sore with myself. This was a blunder.

As it turns out, the crazed dash to south was a strategic magnifico, In effect I've left half / three quarters? of the southron army falling in mountains and / or, on their way to the airport. This knowledge, I shall use later, to get very very very far away and come at them from elsewhere. I will use truck transport to my benefit in future, i can outrun any patrol in the mist(s). Can't wait to do this on next try of game.

More notes:

1st time I tried this game where I attacked Chapoi 1st (in effect) the southron army down weapons and walked, or stood where they were. They were walking OUT of chapoi, to at least as far as the fuel station, perhaps further. Northrons on the other hand all congregated in the airport buildings and unlike southrons, but hands behind head. Both effects were maginificent. THe southron choreograph gave me the impression of soldiers going home to mum / family (which clearly wasn't the case but that was the effect). The Northron choreograph gave the effect of enemy coming to join me if only I knew how. These both, are formidable sequencing in terms of player appeal.

I really was confused with Airport General. The game / author convinced me, he had fled.

1st time thru I attacked airport from north. The mist was the single most effect. This time, from south via beach fence, the mist played no effect at all. It had no significance. All good stuff.

---

I crawl in to west side chapoi, detect a burnt Bradley, We're taking out the odd M2 gunner in the vehicle area and a few agressive singles, no evidence of enemy in strength. Chapoi leads north to that minefield town, I *know* snipers will be on mountside. Very distressed, I make best use of mist to crawl my way in, if mist lifts, snipers will kill us all. I'm biased towards right flank because priority is M2 gunners, but any chance i get, it's 9'oclock for me and the squad. Can't fight these guys when odds are too large, I need wide open areas when mist is about, any sign of re-inforcements, we're out of here.

Have interesting exchanges with a few singles, including snipers, not pleased with some enemy IN sandbags, but there you go. At some point I lose #3, few annoying pieces follow with the broken bush problem Eg, you can never see thru them but they dont exist line of sight wise for enemy and you're always hit.

Leap in the Vulcan and re-arm it, I chose it because it was the one in front (clear view). Take out a few nasties but then the T72 which I most definitely cannot 'see' and neither can my squad, hits me from 350 meters (I saved game and ran to him to check this) I accept he may have seen vulcan tracer. Retry:

Couldn't get squad into any of these vehicles, (a bradley, a vulcan, a Godzilla) they flat refuse.

Get in a great spot to snipe the general's body guard (between buildings looking directly at church). Knock em all out. Squad doing a reasonable job. Get them to stop, lie down, because they're losing it when armour is around, going awol.

A Godzilla arrives with a Bmp, the bmp goes, one or two pathetic shots at the godzilla, then most of the squad are swiped, one at a time (the godzilla is incredibly innacurate). Godzilla came in becuase I'd picked off a T72/Vulcan some time before, this choreograph I accept. He's not there becuase I'm in Chapoi. Several retries to essentially keep out of its way, not much joy. Snipers in hills pick off a few of me, again, unconditionally cannot 'see' them. Cheatsave and run to them to check this fact.

All in all, I've had enough, The mission is a masterpiece, no doubt at all about that. I get into familiar territory of at least trying to kill off Godzilla because all other choices are now closed, and end up planting AP/AV. This is the last straw for my game play. It's not that I can't learn new tricks, it's like fighting one handed, your right arm is now, effectively useless, like holding a rifle with left hand only. You dont have time to scroll down, it's become a non-functioning part of game immersion. My left hand cannot, effectively move, slide, crawl and, additionally "R"eload. Quite some spoiler. Please give me my mines and satchels back.

So, I stop the mission here. I'm tired, emotionally exhausted in fact. Tough ask to play this mission and report it at same time. Much tougher than expected. I've learned a lot about me, in the process. Have an inkling now of why the author nearly gave up on this magnificient creation. It drains you.

Let's go for a walk, Fido.
Just say no to bugz

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #473 on: 05 Apr 2005, 03:06:32 »
It's one of these red herrings of beta testing:  people mention it becuase they are frustrated and annoyed at the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should change anything.

I'm 100% behind you there Mr Mac, it's not my call. It's not my mission.
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #474 on: 05 Apr 2005, 06:51:29 »
I think my earlier post was mis-read.  Let me quite the relevant part:

Quote
For example I could move the mine instructions from being a radio command to being the top action of the players list.

This would result in the numer of remaining mines being reported as suggested by Planck.
« Last Edit: 05 Apr 2005, 06:52:39 by THobson »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #475 on: 05 Apr 2005, 06:59:30 »
mikero

Just read your last post.  Thank you. You are a hero.

If you have any thoughts about the things you don't like - mines and Abrams would feature highly I guess.  You certainly deserve to be listened to.
« Last Edit: 05 Apr 2005, 07:00:56 by THobson »

Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #476 on: 06 Apr 2005, 00:19:28 »
Hope I can get OFP working agan *crosses fingers* Damn IDE cable snapped at the same time my computer crashed and wouldn't rest6art (an it wasnt the cable causing it cos i replaced it) then had to reinstal windows. bah. damn microsoft. But if it works... I'm gonna loose my life again!!! DAMN YOU THobson!!!!!!!! Why does this mission have to be so good.

*edit: Yay!!! top of the list of beta testers  :P*
« Last Edit: 06 Apr 2005, 00:24:22 by XCess »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #477 on: 06 Apr 2005, 01:56:00 »
XCess:  Welcome back.  Top of the list - well you were the first.

Henderson:  I am not ignoring you

mikero: I need to give more attention to enormous run through.

I only have time to skim read this week.  I will be back home soon.

Bye the way mikero.  A lone Abrams is very vulnerable to a satchel charge, and if that is placed at its side it will get the crew out without fully destroying it, so with a rapair truck you get the tank for yourself.

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #478 on: 06 Apr 2005, 02:33:37 »
Bye the way mikero.  A lone Abrams is very vulnerable to a satchel charge, and if that is placed at its side it will get the crew out without fully destroying it, so with a rapair truck you get the tank for yourself.


3 things. After this I am going to do all I can to desist from hitting the reply button to this mission for a little while. I've swamped it. Others *must* have their say.

I have no issue with the Godzilla's, they're in the same category as "never stick around". You learn as you play.

I am reminded of MacGuba's comment that beta testers rarely report an error of fact. The Larche, and Larche only Abrahms had different characteristics to the Trinite and the Chapoi tank. I wont swallow even more board space. Basically I went back to user/temps and tried them all out. The others were 3 law/rpg. The Larche turned from white to angry red after each hit. I synchronised a larche hit (all - cease fire) and hit him with 3 at a time, he died. (cannot be 100% on last statement because i died too). I am unhappy about the Godzillas which makes the game fantastic  ::)

Finally, I do have some contribution in 'ideas', I am building up a list of them, they're staying off this board until others get a word in.

Your comments back to me have been appreciated. (especially by Fido who's now returned to 'safe' mode)
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Offline macguba

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #479 on: 06 Apr 2005, 21:29:54 »
mikero I don't think you're swamping, you're just telling lots of detail.  I haven't read any of it yet, since you're ahead of me.

You may recall I was shot by a sniper overlooking Arudy who I coudn't see.    I'm really on my way to H/Dourdan.

Went after him.    8.12 convoy of four jeeps/mg pass through Arudy in good order heading west.   Boxed round to the south of Arudy and found him and his mate, both very, very well hidden.    Took several attempts:  having the SW standing up made him virtually invisible.     Brilliantly done, however I'm afraid you have to take these guys out of the mission.   You've gone to so much trouble to create the atmosphere and, even aside from the shooting through the fog thing, they spoil it.   Not consistent.    I was also disappointed to see they were both US.   You don't need to be absolutely pedantic about every single pairing being one of each, but we need more mixing and matching.  I'd have made this a Soviet sniper with an M21 and a Yank with a Dragunov - kindred spirits who swapped weapons.  

Bodies behind tents:  we don't need theme everywhere, or if we do make it different in each village.   Behind tents, under the net, in a garden somewhere.   In this case, since there is a graveyard, put them by the entrance.

Picked up one M21 and somebody took the other, then my last remaining shotgun merchant took the second M21.   Cleared four loons from the village, took their weapons (2 laws but no mg) and the truck and legged it.    The obvious approach to Houdan is from that road end farm to the west, so we headed that way.   Ambushed onthe way by a wandering squad:  tick tick tick boom!    Savegame cheat and took them out second time.   Approached the farm tactically.   Nobody at the top end.  

The weather is clearing and its 8.37, but that half hour of game time has taken me an hour and a half.   Everybody has a proper weapon, with the spare M21 still in the squad.   1 AA, 1 LAW, 1 RPG, 1M60, 2NVGs.

Covering the lower farm.  It's too quiet, there should be somebody about.  Ah, there is, a solitary soldier.   Well I doubt he's solitary but shoot him anyway.    We run south down the track, I may be daft enough to come to this place but I draw the line at approaching Houdan down the road.     I almost run up to the loon on the track before seeing him, but fortunately he doesn't see me.   I stop for a look around and a squad of three are coming up the main road to the farm.   We drop them but they saw and and shot back so we're in the shit now.   (Actually lost 6 the first time round, but retried since he was a soldier and we need the kit.)  Leg it over the skyline and "3 o'clock unknown tank 200" bloody hell what now.

Well there's nothing there, or rather I can't find it.   What is it?  Will it kill me?  Will I kill it?   Find out in the next exciting installment.

On the basis of that session this mission may be a fraction too hard.  I know I'm a bit crap these days, and was playing in devil may care betatest mode rather than properly, but even allowing for that it was slow going.   This is a very big mission:  the essence of the difficulty (apart from the big fights) is the number of contacts - sooner or later somebody is going to get you.   Therefore the contacts themselves should be pretty easy.    All these guys overlooking things and random ambushes are not easy.    

Anyway, long way to go yet.   Hope the trip isn't proving too tiresome.

« Last Edit: 06 Apr 2005, 23:12:39 by macguba »
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