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Author Topic: (Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies  (Read 261941 times)

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Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1050 on: 03 Jul 2005, 19:19:19 »
Bugger.

no dxdll, game crashed after civils and no way known, could I get the auto or save.fps to work again. Damn damn damn.

Am reasonably confident that my computer is stable and not causing the initial crash. Something 'orrible imho has happened, this version.

zipped save is 1M3 so I'll try a private message to you

Just say no to bugz

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1051 on: 03 Jul 2005, 19:30:55 »
Ok, I ran this version.

I played up to getting both sets of civilians and checking on the third.

Then back to base and saved the game.

I then quit, rebooted the machine and restarted the game, my mission save loaded ok, no problems.

I will play more later and see how it goes.


EDIT: Incidentally, I was running DXDLL, I can't run this with post processing on or reflections on, I ran it only for the fps counter.



Planck
« Last Edit: 03 Jul 2005, 19:32:03 by Planck »
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Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1052 on: 03 Jul 2005, 22:41:53 »
tudders:
Sorry I missed this.
Quote
Oh, and how do you re-organise the team?  I bring up the menu and click on the list for a voice over but dont no how to do anything else
Just bring up the menu, select the person you want to be number 2 and press the Add to Team button.  Then select the person you want to be number 3 and do the same.  If you click finish or press escape then the remaining peopel on the list will be added to the team in the order they are in the list.

Mikero:
Well bardosy seems not be taking much notice of the beta testing we have been doing for him so I will stop for the time being andhave another look here.  I am starting my own full runthrough of v1.22  I am using fraps to measure fps.  I seem to be hovering in the 9 to 11 range.  Just got the lodge and exited the game.  I try to go back in and I cannot - I get the large savegame bug and my work around doesn't work.

Back to the bloody drawing board!

This is the first time I have had this since many versions ago, and Planck seems not to have the problem so it may not take much to get rid of the problem.
« Last Edit: 03 Jul 2005, 22:50:24 by THobson »

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1053 on: 03 Jul 2005, 23:26:05 »
Quote
and Planck seems not to have the problem

Spoke too soon, I get it now and then.
Sometimes it loads, sometimes not.

If I play for a while, then kill myself, then do a retry, it usually fails.


Planck
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Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1054 on: 04 Jul 2005, 01:16:08 »
I'll put off playing this version then. I only get a very limmited time to play lately anyway, I'll kee on with my early assasinations :p
Chapoi next. Target: Stamenov.
« Last Edit: 04 Jul 2005, 01:16:23 by XCess »

Offline Mikero

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1055 on: 04 Jul 2005, 01:38:26 »
@Planck

Quote
EDIT: Incidentally, I was running DXDLL, I can't run this with post processing on or reflections on, I ran it only for the fps counter.

ditto comment here.

>If I play for a while, then kill myself, then do a retry, it usually fails.

the bit that interests me is 'usually'. It means something's intermittent, another process in background, strange place on hard drive, virtual memory, something. I'd be keen to get hold of your autosave.fps (if you really mean retry)

@Xcess

yes, I'd hold off. *extremely* frustrating on this huge mission if you have to climb th ehill again :P Up to you of course.
Just say no to bugz

Offline Planck

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1056 on: 04 Jul 2005, 01:58:03 »
My first save for this version was after clearing Vigny and collecting all weapons I could.

My second save was after collecting all the civvies and I was at the lodge.

I then killed myself and quit the game.

After rebooting my machine I loaded the game again and 'Resumed' the mission........it loaded ok.

I ran down to Vigny, got shot dead.......then I pressed 'Retry'........the load failed and I was dumped back to windows.

Restarted the game........pressed 'Resume'..........loaded fine.

Killed myself with a grenade.
Pressed 'Retry'......load failed.

Restarted game again.....this time 'Resume' failed also.

I might shut down all tasks before playing next time.....except explorer and systray of course.


@Mikero
You don't really want my autosave file it is over 9Mb (over 2Mb zipped).


Planck

« Last Edit: 04 Jul 2005, 02:00:58 by Planck »
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Henderson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1057 on: 04 Jul 2005, 06:14:11 »
NB:  There is a bug I cannot fix.  If you collect the first civilians using a truck and Alexi is not the driver when you return to the lodge then OFP will have set some other member of your team to be the formation leader.  I have tried but I can find no way of fixing this.  This is a problem with OFP

To fix this, type 0, then 1. That should make you say ready, and you'll be the formation leader again.

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1058 on: 04 Jul 2005, 08:25:24 »
XCess:
Yes stick with 1.21 for the timebeing.

Henderson:
Thanks I didn't know that

Planck/Mikero:
I think this is a lost cause.  I am going to do some restructuring to reduce the number of names in use.  I may be wrong but I have an explanation for the fact that it is intermittent.  One explanation is:  The problem appears to be caused by having a large number of named items to save.  Much of the work going on in the background is done by scripts that run intermittently.  If a save is done when a script is running then the local variables in the script will count as things to save.  So saving when a script is running will be more likely to trigger the problem.  If I am correct this is a good sign, it means the mission is close to being safe all I have to do is to remove a few names.  I have some ideas.  I was careful with the flagpoles, even though I am able to change the flag on them not one of them has a name.  I will adopt a similar approach to the ammo crates at LaT (8 names).  I think several units have names and their group has a name - one is clearly redundant.  Have you set DeBug = true in init.sqs, started the mission and gone to the map?  You will see a constantly updating picture of all the key units on the map.  Each one of these is a named marker, these can go.  I just need to think of more of these.  The real problem is to go through all the scripts and make sure I don't introduce any bugs by taking out object names.



Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1059 on: 04 Jul 2005, 08:49:44 »
Got the bastard. 8:50 gametime. Stamenov is dead.

Took the truck from the loadge and drove cross country southward to the west of Chapoi. Drove into the town from there (mowing down all but two of a full squad who were walking down the road) looking around. Saw big house and fencing, kept dricing and turned around. At this point the enemy opened fired. Rammed down the fence and drove into a building. Shot a black op or two that were across the road killing civilians I believe. turned round, killed two more black ops from the direction I came (south of the house). Crawled under my truck and killed three black ops in front of the house and one on the other side of the camp then crawled into the house.
Made my way up the stairs and shot Stamenov in the back. No chance of saving the women.

Went back downstairs and jumped in a jeep I spotted to the north of the house. Droved straight foward and rammed the fence down. Revered and drove on. Noticed there were sandbags in my way and crashed into them. Just before I hit them I saw some near dead armopr. jumped in Mr Godzilla and drove off to the east untilk it ran out of fuel. Jumped out and ran in whatever direction I happened to be facing. Turned out to be south ::)

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1060 on: 04 Jul 2005, 09:47:30 »
I presume it is am and not pm.

Bloody hell - you are really kicking up a storm.  This is now an unusual scenario and I am interested in how it will play out.  Both leaders are dead and (I think) a relatively small amount of damage done to each army.  It might not be easy.  I may need to make some changes as a result of this.

What was the lag like in and around Chapoi?
« Last Edit: 04 Jul 2005, 09:49:54 by THobson »

KyleEasterly

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1061 on: 04 Jul 2005, 10:47:38 »
This is totally weird.  Let me describe exactly what should have happened.  
-After listening to the radio at the lodge you drive off to the hut.  It is actually at Dd46, but that doesn't matter.  
-As you approach the hut you get a fade to black, and a cutscene with Alexi standing outside the hut.
-At the end of the scene the soldier and the civis in the hut start following you around.
-If you get in a truck then they will ask you to wait and then they will get in as well.
-Once they are all in they will tell you.They do this.
-You then drive to the lodge - on getting close you will get a fade to black and then you will get an overhead shot of the truck with people getting out.This never happens, i drive up, drive around, get out and the civis do too, get back in, drive away and come back.
-Then another cutscene will start during which the civis run off.
-At the end of the scene Yuri (the soldier from the hut) will join you.

So that is what should happen.  At what point does your experience diverge from this?  Did they tell you they were in the truck for example?

Did anything strange happen on the way back to the lodge (I am clutching at straws here - did you do a save and restore? exit the mission and come back in again?)

What is really puzzling about this problem is that the whole thing is done with one script, the code that gets them to follow you around is also the place where the check is made to see if you are near the lodge.

I will now go and ponder the code to see what could be happeneing.

What is DXDLL?  

EDIT:

Can you remember if the destroyed wooden building was still there?



Destroyed wooden building... the mountain lodge is the 'ruins' building with the radio, right? Sorry, I was playing this mission on not-much sleep (like right now!), hence my confusing the ural and the pv3s.

I never exited or anything, i DID save the game right after i got the civis INSIDE the truck. but never reloaded it (until after i tried alot to get the cutscene to trigger.)

i restarted the mission but stuck around too long at vigny and got shot in the back by one of the soldiers that arives after tatyana's death.

Offline Fragorl

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1062 on: 04 Jul 2005, 11:22:57 »
Well. It's been a while. As far as I can tell, right now I'm not even playing the most recent version. I'm still hammering away at v1.20, having fun, doing it at my own pace, and quite obviously behind the rest of you all :)

The lag... I know this isn't news for anyone. But THobson, the mission often is almost unplayable.  You mentioned a long time a go that Abandoned Armies isn't for everyone due to its freeform style of play and its overwhelming odds against the player. However, I seriously believe that the amount of lag will reduce your audience by quite a lot more... if there is anything you can do, it needs to be done! I plan on dePBOing it and having a looksie at the next opportunity, whenever that may be.

Anyhow, from where I left off. This is going to be a looong post, so apologies in advance ;)

I left you at my ambush point on the main road in the south of the island. I began to really feel my proximity to chapoi, with the Vulcan battery frequently opening fire on me, the odd patrols crossing by, and one or two more investigative units stumling across my hiding spot. Eventually the M1A1/go-chira and BMP that had stationed themselves in a paddock directly north forced me out of hiding and brought it home that my little spot wasn't so ideal, after all. A black Op lying prone in the middle of the field without a care in the world provided some welcome satchel charges, and I plucked a launcher off an unprotesting corpse nearby. Then I set off to kill the two bastard pieces of armour that were making my life so difficult, in a final rude gesture towards Stamenov before I left for greener pastures.

The pair of tanks, it turned out, were guarded by a very static 'vee' of soldiers who spotted me through the curtains of rain and shot me dead. Many retries occured at this point. The tanks themselves were suprisingly apt at spotting me as well, and I was frequently shot or blown up, in addition to being run over on one occaision. I realised the futility of engaging or even attempting to sneak by the formation of sentinels standing guard, so I eventually made use of the shrubbery to the east, crawling up to the Abrams to lay a satchel. Having done this I crawled back (or at least, the time when I wasn't discovered and killed by the BMP, abrams or infantry I crawled back) to my bush and got ready, launcher poised to get the BMP once the abrams was down. By happy coincidence, the Abrams was not flipped over or completely and utterly destroyed, so providing a reclaiming opportunity for later. Position duly noted on map. Even more pleasingly, the BMP blundered into the infantry formation and the ensuing fireball killed off a whole lot of them. Meanwhile the abrams crew fled into the haze. Deciding the time was more than ripe to leave, I made my leafy way through the paddock and back to the road, amazingly once being shot by the vulcan battery and killed, first burst, from such a distance that the death movie took 5 seconds to center on the the vulcan. I couldn't even rouse any feelings of anger at this point, I just had to applaud the gunner.

#retry
At last I made my way back to the fuel station which had become like a home to me. I wiped a teary eye as I proudly surveyed the corpses spread throughout my ambush point. 'I will be back, Stamenov, and next time I will bring tanks.' Chosing a jeep from the roadblock I journeyed on back to the relative quiet of the West half of the island. From here it was decision time. I was, at this stage, not ready to visit the mountain lodge and take on the responsibility of leading a group of men. I still wanted the freedom I had when there was just me to look after. And so, at the roadblock towards the mountain lodge I veered right instead of straight and headed through the centre of the island, with vague ideas of La Trinite in mind.

Arudy loomed in front of me, and I unsuccessfully swerved to avoid a group of soldiers patrolling the road. Getting out to see if they were alright, and if there was anything I could do to help, I noticed a collection of tents, which spoke to me of a permanent military presence in the town. I'd have to be cautious. I reboarded my jeep and observed a guard standing at ease, staring at me uncomprehendingly, and totally disinterested in the fate of his comrades now lying splayed at the foot of my jeep. As it turned out, caution was completely unnecessary - the inhabitants of the camp just refused to believe I was a member of the resistance, no matter how many of their number I ran down. I left the base with not one survivor, but confident in the knowledge that I'd just raised the average IQ of either Stamenov's or Andropov's army.

La Trinite was deserted when I got there, which suited me fine. (The AP/AV mine inteface has changed, greatly improved in my opinion, and the dialog gets the thumbs up too). I loaded up a repair truck and left in haste, however, recalling from previous experience that La Trinite is never empty of troops for long. A long line of mines across the south road of La Trinite was my only legacy, but would provide a warm surprise for Stamenov's convoy when they stumbled into them some time later. Back at Dourdan (which I'd picked as my next ambush spot) I prepared my trap to catch some armour amidst the corpses of yet more soldiers who hadn't quite been able to tell the difference between me and something they should really have gotten out of the way of . No sooner had I laid the last satchel-mine than the telltale squeek-squeek of approaching tracks sounded from the middle distance. I saved, then ran back to my supply truck to load up on a launcher. Disaster! Somehow I'd loaded a whole heap of empty lauchers onto the truck, no more use against a tank than my pistol. However, there was bound to be an AT soldier somewhere that I could scavenge... sure enough, there was one silhouetted against the greying sky on the far side of the town... I rushed towards it, but the tracks were getting closer and closer now, and a vulcan suddenly burst out of the haze, it's turret swinging around, perhaps having spotted me and now ready to deliver a killing burst of fire. I didn't find out however, because at that moment it hit a mine, did a spectacular flip, expelled its crew, and exploded. I picked up my LAW and moved away.

Not far behind it came a T80, travelling more cautiously, turret swinging wildly, having witnessed the vulcan's fate. He chose to travel through the city and at a slightly slower pace, which suited me well since he hit a second one of my mines, careened into a house, and took a LAW to the turret. His crew had had enough, they fled the tank. I dealt with them, then readied myself for the final member of the convoy - a T72 travelling at breakneck pace, quite the opposite of the T80. He seemed anxious to get out of the city as fast as he could. He avoided the remainder of my mines, but I was waiting for him behind a shed and hit him with two laws, reloading as soon as I fired, the lag making this a difficult feat to achieve. Suprisingly, he slowed to a halt, teetered on the brink for a moment, then silently imploded in that operation flashpoint way which armour does, before exploding. From this I assumed that he'd seen some prior action, accounting for his weakiened state.

The T80 was soon repaired and I rejoiced at my first piece of captured armour. I decided to head down the east coast for a way, to see what destruction I could wreak. I passed Houdan having run into only one group of infantry, who suprisingly seemed a little more clued up on my identity and proned, with the exception of the two law soldiers who scrabbled for their launchers. Unfortunately they were highlighted against the road and my tank's considerable inertia killed them in one swoop before they had a chance to do anything about it. I then switched to gunner and shot the remainder of the group, who were helpless. Past houdan, which was deserted and thoroughly destroyed, I thought it prudent to check the commander view for nearby armour, and sure enough there was a faintly red speck, but not close enough to target with any accuracy. I proceeded forward, switching to commander every 10 metres or so, until without warning a shot rang out from the red dot and my tank recoiled back under a Sabot round; Alexi no doubt receiving a black eye for his troubles. Quick as a flash (well, quite fast at any rate) I returned fire as gunner, but was struck again by sabot. I fired another accurate shot towards the target in my view, and fortunately did not receve any more fire. I put two more shots into the target before I grew bold enough to invesitgate. The target was a godzilla, and I appreciated how lucky I was when I noticed the angle it lay on the dunes, which had made it impossible to fire back at me. Only that had saved my life this time. I approached closer and saw several infantry and a lone surviving crewmember nearby, then my tank was rocked by a burst of cannonfire and I received my second lucky break; a BMP-2 was placed directly behind the M1A1 and unable to fire any more at me, whilst I was able to inch forward and take it out by some quick shooting. Having done that and taken care of the infantry about the beach, I examined the Godzilla and to my delight it was still intact, though badly knocked about. A plan formed in my head, and looking at my worse-for-the-wear T80 I decided to go with it. I would return to Dourdan, heal up at the medical tent, fix my T80, leave it there, then take the repair truck back and trade in my T80 for an abrams.

I returned to Dourdan without incident, except for finding one infantryman who'd escaped my notice earlier on. Back in the town I healed then headed to where I believed the repair truck to be stashed. I blundered through some trees, then suddely came into a small corner behind a house, literally piled up with the dead - Alexi exclaimed ("Bastards! The sooner we rid the island of these soldiers, the better!"). My resolve against Stamenov heightened. I located the truck, repaired, stowed my T80 away, took the truck and headed back down the coast. The return trip was slighly more incidental. I came across a couple of gormless soldiers who almost let me reach them before they shot me dead through the cab window. #retry. I took the road at even higher speed this time and managed to squish one of the pair, but I didn't stop to finish the deed. Shots rang out from behind but missed me. Having passed Houdan I realised that I'd forgotten to mark the position of the disabled abrams on the map, and was having some trouble finding the spot. I pulled over near a likely spot- nope. Nothing. I continued on at slower speed. Then, unexpected and shocking as always, shots rang out of the fog, one hitting Alexi and spurting blood out the window, but thankfully not killing him. I zoomed over to the opposite side of the road out of harm's way and collided with a mangled truck of unknown type. Bodies were strewn about. I jumped out to investigate, and Alexi exclaimed once more at the carnage and uttered his disgust with Stamenov. This was undoubtedly why, when I subsequently found my attackers, I emptied two full magazines at them. It turned out they hidden were right next to the hulk of the abrams.

The abrams was salvaged, restored to good condition, but I was now faced with a dilemma. I had two tanks, but noone to help me take advantage of them. It looked like my solitary sojourn was coming to an end. I needed men to drive the tanks, and then I could look at dealing Stamenov a major blow. But, seeming as I was so far down the island, I thought I might as well have a quick look around. Turning right and heading inland, I drove my tank rather quickly along the flat road, when unexpectedly a lone figure came running out of the gloom towards me. I saw it was a woman too late; i'd already crushed her. Feeling remorseful, because this was certainly not what I intended, I reloaded the game. This decided me. I'd be interested to hear her story another time but right now I was aching for my friends at the mountain lodge.

The remainder of my journey passed without incident, except for the shooting down of the cobra which began hunting me shortly out of Dourdan. I returned to the town hastily and repaired, then abandoned my abrams alongside the T80, before casting around for a Strela Launcher. After I'd located it I quickly sent the cobra down in flames. (Looking back, this incident probably explained the heightened Nothron/Andropovian armoured presence in the region of Dourdan, and the appearance of a Hind which made it impossible to return to the tanks later, forcing me and my men back to la Trinite.)

Upon reaching the mountain lodge, I took the 'stop or I'll shoot' warning much more seriously this time and inched forward. Cue the cutscene which just keeps getting better and better. I much prefer this version, the summary of the situation is excellent, in fact, greatly improving on v1.00, the dialogue is more believable and so are the character interchanges. The characters themselves have become much more so, and I actually know them by name now ;).

Just one further interesting thing of note happened before I leave you; During the superb cutscene where the first lot of civilians were rescued and set about restoring the lodge, the lady I was talking to who asked me to search for her family suddenly, inexplicably, hit the dirt. Shots flew through the air, and there was gunfire everywhere. This continued for a full 30 seconds as the cutscene progressed, with Alexi alone standing straight and tall as the others crawled about amidst heavy gunfire. I couldn't work out what the hell was going on. It just didn't make sense given the context of the cutscene. The shooting was real enough. But (thankfully) no one was dying, as the cutsecene progressed showing the various participants to be alive, if under attack and somewhat shaken. The cutscene finished and I discovered the cause - upwards of a dozen enemy soldiers now lying in various states of death across the hillside. Not one Alexi's allies was killed, and just how the hell Alexi himself survived I'll never know.

You'll do alright, men.
« Last Edit: 04 Jul 2005, 12:14:26 by Fragorl »

Offline THobson

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1063 on: 04 Jul 2005, 14:42:14 »
KyleEasterly:

You are correct, the stone ruin is the main building in the mission, the reason I asked about the wooden building is that the cutscene that you are missing cuts in when Alexi is <80m from the wooden building, not the stone ruin.  In the script there is a loop that checks how far Alexi is from the wooden building and if he is close enough the cutscene starts.  If he is not close enough then it checks to see if Alexi and the civis are in a vehicle and takes appropriate action, including getting the civis to board the vehicle Alexi is in or getting them to follow him if he is not in a vehicle.

What I am struggling to see is how the script can cause the civis to follow Alexi, but fail to realise he is close to the wooden building.

This remains a real puzzle.


Fragol:
Jee some of you guys are much better at this that I am.  Very impressive performance - and a wonderful writing style as well.

I predicted you would get some company at your ambush point.

Armour is vulnerable to a sneak attack with satchel charges and infantry are vulnerable to some long range sniping, but I like the armour infantry combination.  A real bugger to deal with.  You did well.

It is unfortunate that driving over the soldiers is so easy to do and so safe.  An OFP feature that I am not sure I can do anything about.  It happens mostly if you are in a neutral or friendly vehicle (the jeep will seem friendly to Stamenov's soldiers)

Glad you liked the av/ap mine interface.  One thing puzzled me about LaT, why did you take the repair truck and not the ammo truck?  Practicing for the later versions where there is no ammo truck?

Quote
("Bastards! The sooner we rid the island of these soldiers, the better!"). My resolve against Stamenov heightened.
I am glad, as the author I wrote it and said it and wondered if would be effective or just naff.  I am looking for things to cut out to reduce lag and these voiceovers are on the list to think about.

Quote
I actually know them by name now
Wonderful

The firefight when the cutscene was happening was amusing to read, but it must have ruined the scene itself.  It seem that you were followed to the lodge, which means there are likely to be more on their way.  I really do want to limit the restrictions I put on the player so this sort of thing will happen from time to time if the player stirs the hornets nest early on.

Lag:
I do need to put this mission on a diet.  It has got fat.  My plan was to put in everything I wanted and then take stuff out to reduce the lag.  Problem here is that having put stuff in I don't want to take it out, and changing something is a pretty effective way of introducing bugs.  But it needs to be done.  What is your benchmark by the way?

Again thank you for an excellent write up.


Offline XCess

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Re:Abandoned Armies
« Reply #1064 on: 04 Jul 2005, 19:59:57 »
FPS from the load was 1-3... absolutely terrible.. but it could have been something else causing it since it's never been this bad before.. I instaled the Rf8 and snowboard addon from the BIS forums before I played and when I load I got a missing addon: snowboard error. Very strange.
I'm gonna clean out the addons folder before next try.

EDIT: yes.. 8:50 am
« Last Edit: 04 Jul 2005, 21:47:22 by XCess »