(Review Completed) [SP] Abandoned Armies

[THobson]

If you have made missionette with faces and voices I suggest you tart it up slightly and submit it to the Ed Depot.

Done

[Dubieman]

Hey I wanted to test this sooner, but you always find out other things need more attention. ;D

Well I finally grabbed it and can't wait to play it. Knowing how Defensive Strike was so good, this should be very very fun.

Just got to do some comp housekeeping then I'll start it.

[SEAL84]

Some points before I talk about my progress...

- Yes, the southern convoy was IN La Trinite when I got there.  The sequence of events looked like this:  1) I sneak into La Trinite and realize that the convoy is there.  2)  I wait to see if it leaves -> I hear lots of engine noise but can see nothing due to fog.  3)  I sneak over to ammo crates, see convoy.  4)  I stuff ammo in the BMP ambulance.  5)  I observe some more.  6)  I jump in the BMP and drive away...they absolutely had to have seen me leaving but nobody shot at me.  7)  I go back to the town a little later and the convoy is still there, but all the vehicles are in slightly different positions but are still parked next to the church.    I get bored and start LAWing stuff, at which point WWIII breaks out in La Trinite.  9)  I wait around and watch the show.  10)  I leave.

- You could leave all that ammo right where it is, because there's always the chance that what happened to me will happen to somebody else.  And even if the convoys work properly you don't have much time.  My only concern here is that there seems to be a little TOO much here....will explain later.  

Anyhow, after fleeing La Trinite, it goes something like this:

I got back to base empty-handed since pretty much every vehicle was destroyed by infantry or the Cobra.  Just before I left I heard the Cobra get shot down.  

So I get back to base and save, then I believe that's when I headed to Arudy - which I've already mentioned - but basically I crept up on the town, looked around, saw it was empty and took the open 5-ton for the ammo it holds.  I get back to base and save again.  Load up with an MP5 with 4 mags, a satchel charge, and a LAW with 2 rockets.  

A little jog to Goisse reveals that the place is abandoned...while in the town a T-80 and an Abrams rumble by and they looked like they were in very bad shape.  After they pass I go on foot to Vigny, my favorite place in the whole world ;D

I didn't expect to see anybody here and I wasn't surprised.  Meanwhile the fog has crept in again and I literally can't see my hand in front of my face - visibility is absolutely zero.  Regardless, I jog to Le Pessagne, find the fuel depot, and satchel it.  I didn't see any infantry but I didn't go looking either.  I return to base.

I go to Larche - nobody here.  I proceed to the fuel depot between LArche and Saint Louis - killed by a patrol at the edge of a forest.  Retry to the point about five minutes ago.

Off to Dourdan...creep towards it, get really close to the town, and run into a patrol...I take down some of them but am killed.  I'm really getting careless here.

On a general note, I no longer hear either chopper.  For a while after I left La Trinite, tank and infantry battles could be heard...they seem to have dropped off altogether.

Back to Dourdan...this time I drive there in the jeep and hide in the town to set up and ambush for the infantry squad.  I get up in the second floor of an undamaged building and watch as they approach from the direction of 3 (okay, lazy time).  I pick them off one by one from the windows, wait to see if anybody else comes to investigate, and then - you guessed it - plunder all their weapons and throw them in the jeep.  This time I have the luxury of saying "hmmm don't need one of those....don't need one of those....but I do need this!"  I drive over to Houdan and find nothing.  By this time the sun has set and it's twilight, but the weather has cleared up.  I go back to base and save.  

I unload all the goodies at base, then dive onward to Larche in a car since they're expendable.  Killed by a roaming infantry patrol just north of my base.  Retry from thirty seconds prior.  This time I set up on the hill east of the base and watch them come jogging up to me - I fire a LAW into them, killing two of them, and then kill the rest with the HK.  I see a machinegun jeep drive towards Larche from the west, down from that windy road - I see his headlights, mainly - but then he stops.  Hmmmmmm.  Back to base for more ammo since I'm nearby, also I leave the NVGs I had for #8.  Back down the hill to start looting again, and another infantry squad is coming along - I wait for them to leave, then grab the NVGs from the officer I just killed and bring them back to base for #6.  I go back down into that valley and see a long tank crewman standing there....okay, fine....I shoot him too and take his NVGs

Then I head over to that machinegun jeep (which is still just sitting there, manned), crawl nearby, and HK the crew.  I jump in and sure enough, it's out of gas.  Back to base to fetch my own jeep and load it up with the weapons from the three dudes who were in it  Drop the loot off at base.

I head over to 3 on foot again, and am greeted with dozens of bodies and vehicle wrecks all over town...not a living soul in sight.  I look around for a vehicle and find one Ural fuel is still in working order, so I drive it over to the ammo crates and start loading it up.  I take HKs and HK mags, since all this time I've been going lone-wolf with the HK.  I take 4 LAW launchers and like 20 LAW rockets, two M60s from the dead infantry, a Carl Gustav launcher and 8 rockets, and then I drive back to base.

My little ammo crate is getting quite full, so I leave all that stuff in the truck and save.

Down into Larche I go on foot, wondering where that infantry squad I didn't kill has gone...I go back to that gas station along the way to Saint Louis...ah, there they are.  I drop them all and head into St. Louis.  Nobody here save for another empty 5-ton.  I jump in and drive back to base, then save for the day.  It's 2000 hours with some fog and rain.

There's like no way I can take stock of all the weapons I have, but here's the inventory from memory...

- the civilians are armed with AK74s, except for one who has an M16.  6 and 8 have NVGs.
- My soldiers are armed with AK74s and RPGs.
- I have an HK and a LAW launcher.
- A Tokarev and a couple of CZ75s in the crate.
- a LAW, RPG, 6 HKs, PK, Stinger, Strela, Carl Gustav M60, M16, and 2 AK74s in the ammo crate.
- At least ten satchel charges in the crate.
- Another AK74 and M16 in my jeep.
- a Carl Gustav with 8 rounds, 4 HKs with plenty of mags, 4 LAW launchers with 20 rockets, and 2 M60s with full ammo in the fuel truck.

Why I gathered so much, I have no idea....there's so much here that I could never hope to use it all ;D ;D

I'll try wrapping this mission up later today.

[Dubieman]

Thobson...Thobson...THOBSON! I can feel the realism and atmosphere building in my room, I think I have to open a window....
WHOOSH
Ahh better now.

Great mission, I haven't got much into it yet though.

Overview: graphic but good, shows how you know something is seriously screwy here. ;D

intro: Damn, the text goes along nice nice, and good shots too
though i kinda lost who was who at the civvi island
but seeing the "gagglefuck" (BHD quote ) of vehicles on each side was kinda weird but cool, nice battle shots too. The hanging was a nice job of scripting. How'd did you do that? ;D

briefing: voices are okay, woulda prefered a woman's voice cause I think the player is a woman. I hope I'm right.... :-X

pistol? Vigny? hill? :'(
Knew this was gonna be bad at the start, well the run anyways.

mission: Here we go, pitch black, no real running. Get up the hill and shoot ppl in the house. Okay pistol has no penetrating power, damn 3-5 bullets per person. :'(

The cutscene was okay, I woulda thought the woman woulda been more excited when seeing a family member with a gun. Plus she didn't seem to see me killing the guy in front of her.

So she dies and I think that some sorta large squad is coming so I grab an M16 and grenades and take off in the jeep. Now I'm pretty damn good at knowing where I am on every BIS island without any GPS, but wow, I was staggering around trying to find that house. Haven't found it yet. I've lined up on the road alright and found the hill so I could line it up with the marker but after going straight east.... nothing.... nothing.... hit a tree ;D....nothing...hmm

That's where I am now, but I think there is much much more to come. And its looking good so far. Good voice work.

@to compare it to Macca's unimpossible mission, this seems to have the story, but I dunno so far Macca's mission has the trophy for gameplay and game time. ;D

[macguba]

@GRK, the lodge is not hidden:  find somewhere you are sure of (for example a road junction) and just head down the bearing.    This is much harder to do in the fog than you might think:  use your compass well.   (I will post a lesson on navigation in fog if needs be.)   If you think you are there or thereabouts do a square search.   There are a couple of buildings and a fire - if you're close you can't miss it.  I wouldn't normally give spoilers like this but we're beta testing.

Although this mission has many similarities with my Unimpossible mission, there are also many profound differences.    For example Unimpossible was never intended to have a decent story, or cover the whole of the island.    There is no question that this has a much better story.   And you have a long way to go yet .....

[THobson]

@SEAL84

Then I head over to that machinegun jeep (which is still just sitting there, manned), crawl nearby, and HK the crew.  I jump in and sure enough, it's out of gas

Damn.  That didn't happen in the rehearsal!  In soak testing those jeeps keep refuelling at their fuel station, forever.  Obviously with all the other action going on they get distracted, take detours and so run out of fuel.  One full tank will get them round their patrol route just less than twice.  

I think I need to relinquish some of the underlying realism here for the sake of playability.  As the player would you rather I kept refuelling the jeeps on their journey, irrespective of where they are (In other words give up on only refuelling at fuel stations), or did having it run out of fuel feel okay?

By this time the sun has set and it's twilight

Strewth!!  I am deeply grateful that you have spent so much time on it.

@GRK
Having people fail to find the mountain lodge was my biggest worry when I posted the mission, but many seem to go straight there.  I originally had it so the jeep at Vigny only had enough fuel to get you there, then I relented and gave it a full tank.  I now have a long list of other concerns.

mac is right, it would be wrong to compare this mission with his Un-Impossible mission, though I freely (see the readme file) admit to being influenced to a very great extent by my experience playing that mission and I have also lifted some of the excellent ideas he used there.  I was overawed by Un-Impossible.  I hope people have a similar feeling with this.  More than that I would resist comparisons.

@all
I have done some work on mac's idea about the flags.  Currently each side has its own flag (there are now a couple more placed on the planet I should not visit - but I may later make my own).  These flags are displayed in each base, each camp and the leader of each vehicle group displays their flag.  The flag does not move to another vehicle if the leader is killed, that felt a little unrealistic and anyway would have required each flag to have a name.  As the flag is attached to a person not the vehicle if they get out the flag goes with them.  The infantry groups do not carry flags.  More experimentation to do on all this.

I am sure there were other things I meant say, but I have forgotten for now.

EDIT:
I now remember a couple of them.
At the start of beta testing there was a lot of discussion about slogging up the him with only a pistol being a bit tedious and there was also discussion about banning the use of acctime.  At some point, now that many of you are well into the mission, I would be interested to know if you have any strong opinions about these early topics.

@SEAL84:
So it is now dark and the streetlights should be coming on.  Except that I have turned them off because Malden has no electricity available outside the main bases.  If you see a lit streetlight that I have missed then please let me know.

[XCess]

I would be interested to know if you have any strong opinions about these early topics.

The journey up the hill is very slow and tedious. I think everyone that plays will tap the + button.. I'd suggest leave setAccTime in here.
But further on in the game iI love not having setAccTime, waiting in the bushines in Dourdan for the armored patrol to leave me alone is one experience I loved in the mission. Maybe disable it once you're near Vigny.

[djackl]

Now that I have played a bit, it does add a lot of atmosphere not being able to speed up time. I think that it's best left out, as it isn't good to change a mission because of impatient people like me  ;D. The journey to vigny is long, but manageable, and it is worth it leaving accelerated time out.

[macguba]

Part of the problem of that early journey to Vigny is that you not yet used to the absence of 4x, so its extra frustrating.  I'm used to it now so its not so bad, and having no 4x is part of what gives this mission its special character.    Once you have done the civvy bits there are no truly long journeys - you never have to go further than the next town to find something happening.      Allowing 4x at the start I think would be wrong - its so important to setting up the atmosphere.

However, getting up to the end of the civvy collection is tedious.    You need to speed it all up to compensate for the lack of 4x (which may involve changing the start time slightly).

[XCess]

So I've been playing for another 5 hours and I've found something I absolutely hate. The mines. Not the mines themself but a few problems with them. I've had to retry twice so far because of accidentally placed mines. A de-activation option is ESSENTIAL especially as it's the first two actions on the menu.. I just accidentally placed a mine by my jeep and exited the game forgetting abaout the autosave when u quit, hopefully I can drive the jeep off quickly enough before the mine is armed, then I'll just send one of the civs to blow themselves up over it with a car.

So first off, I went to La Trinite to see what I could find. Took the motorbike and drove straight into the town. The southern convoy was by the south of La Trinite but I managed to get in unnoticed. Saw the Bradley and LAWd that and a 5t. Then I got shot by some dude with an m16.

Decided to go in with 3 as he had an RPG and take out the south convoy. Hit a tree on the ay there so we had to go most of the way on foot. By the time we got there the southern convoy was just leaving, so I waited a bit and moved in to ambush the northern convoy. Set 3 to sit in some bushes and view the north while I grabbed a bizon and the mines.
Set up a few mines around the north of La Trinite and waited.
First I saw a 5t driving ahead of the convoy, he went staright into an AV mine I'd placed on the road. Then came a Ural ammo and a BMP. the BMP stopped north of La Trinite and i started firing at the wheels of the Ural ammo. The Ural ammo ended up turning towards me before I'd popped it's tries so I popped the loon inside instead.the BMP and another Ural moved closer and just as they were unloading I let 3 open fire and fired a LAW low n the BMP myself hoping to disable it. BMP disabled. Ural dead. Or so I thought.
Turned out I only killed the driver of the BMP so they sorted themselves out and 3 but an RPG in the armor as soon as they'd boarded, then he opened fire on a few infantry.. 3 was somehow killed although I dind;t see any infantry nearby until two full squads came in to investigate. I lay in bushes for absolutely ages waiting for the southern convoy to come and help me out. They didn't.
One squad entered La Trinite and another line of view at me was blocked by some fallen trees so I jumped in the Ural ammo and sped off back to the Lodge.

Then I thought I'd find another use for my mines. Took a journey to Dourdan on foot and placed AV mines on both sides (north and south) of the road and a few AP mines nearby.. on AP mine furtherst from Dourdan to the south - hopefully I can disable the bradley or vulcan. Went back to the lodge.

Armed up with an m21 and got another LAW then went back to La Trinite for some theft. Just jumped in the BMP ambulance and drove off.

Then back to Dourdan to check on my mines. All still present, no dead except the first loons I'd killed with my nades. Waited around for about 40mins to see if anything happened then got bored and went to get my jeep back. No idea whats happeed to the southern convoy, I've just loaded my jeep up with 9 satchels and seven LAWS, took the SVD, two Nades and another two LAWS. If the jeeps not blown up by those accidentally placed mines I'm gonna take an expedition to Chapoi and see if I can find an explanation for the dissapearance of the Convoy. Also I have the fuel depot in my targets.

[macguba]

Grrr, just lost the whole damn post.

The summary:

1)  In my squad 6 and 8 are soldiers, 7 is the medic.   These guys get killed all the time because they are tailend charlies and carry laws.   The wretched civvies in my group are at the front and don't ever seem to be shot at.   It would be good if somehow, something could be done about this.    Soldiers at the front, medic in the middle, civvies at the back.    Maybe have a reorganisation once you collect everybody.

2)  When you get spotted, as I did in Saint Louis on this new attempt from an Abort save (the Retry was just too hard) you get an awful lot of trouble coming your way.    You can get out of it because you have infinite savegames.  I'd rather have fewer savegames and a slightly easier mission.     I had four or five groups, including one armour, coming in on one 90 degree arc in very close succession.   I don't know waht was coming up behind because we kept moving, but it took many retries and I got bored.     In poor weather you'd have a chance but not in this sunshine:   armour can whack you from miles away.

3)  Pic from S-L looking towards 3 at about 9.30


Edit:  totally agree with Xcess on the mine problem - you  must have a deactivate Action.  The same sort of thing has happened to me.

[XCess]

Also you can still place the mines while in some vehicles. This means the mine poppi up under the vehicle and ur characte popping out the top becauise of the switchMove.

Managed to keep my jeep on the second try the mine seemed to have just dissapeared. So I drove of the the south heading for Sain Marie which would be the start of my lone attack n Chapoi but as I passed Arudy I heard explosions to the east. My mines in Dourdan, so I drove off to take  look leaving my jeep back a bit and went to inspect the dammage.
I saw two disabled jeep MGs and a couple more dead loons. So I ran off to La Trinite, snuck in and stole the 5t Repair, took it back to Dourdan and got the two jeeps MGs and 5t repair back to the lodge. was killed by a patrol while I was on my way back to the jeep.
My new objective is to snipe out Arudy from the north. Game time's about 1200 now.

[THobson]

@XCess
The set up is that a convoy does not leave its base until the other convoy has left La Trinite (or has been completely disabled).  I think I might need to change this.  Do you recall the state of the north convoy?

The mines are a pain like that.  I tried to get them further down the list of actions but so far with no success.  A disable option is a great idea. :thumbsup:

Also you can still place the mines while in some vehicles. This means the mine poppi up under the vehicle and ur characte popping out the top because of the switchMove.

Another good catch.  Thanks.  Now why didn't I think of that!

My new objective is to snipe out Arudy from the north

Good luck


@macuba

on this new attempt from an Abort save (the Retry was just too hard) you get an awful lot of trouble coming your way.    You can get out of it because you have infinite savegames.  I'd rather have fewer savegames and a slightly easier mission.

How far back did you have to go?  Prior to starting the war?

In poor weather you'd have a chance but not in this sunshine:  armour can whack you from miles away.

I was begining to think that the weather gets too good and was thinking of increasing the minimum settings for overcast and fog.  It limits your ability to snipe but perhaps improves the game play.

Nice picture, your work or seomething done by the otherside?  They all seem to be in a line

EDIT

When you get spotted, as I did in Saint Louis on this new attempt from an Abort save (the Retry was just too hard) you get an awful lot of trouble coming your way.

A lot of trouble is certainly possible, but it is all pretty much spread out so it should take a while to arrive.  Hit and run is a good tactic, but I guess that keeping doing that might bunch up the groups looking for you so that instead of arriving individually they could all be getting to you at once.

[SEAL84]

Let's see....took the fuel truck down to the machinegun jeep and refueled it, then brought both of them back to my base.  Then I loaded the machinegun jeep up with some extra LAWs and other ammo and set out to see what hell there was to be raised.  Drove to Saint Louis - nobody along the way - and was going to take up a sniper position over the airbase but the weather turned extraordinarily bad, so I headed back.  

Took my machinegun jeep and drove around...Vigny, La Pessagne, Arudy, Dourdan, Houdan, Le Port....nobody left alive, it would seem.  I did however find the other three jeeps.  Two were destroyed at the road junction where the winding road west from Larche meets the North-South road west of your base, and the other was destroyed just south of Arudy with what looked like an entire infantry squad dead nearby.

I drove through the mountains to Saint Marie, saw nobody in town, so I walked in...apparantly those little signs meant it was mined, eh?  D'oh....retry.

Headed back there but went around the town on foot, then headed for Chapoi...observed a little from the hills north of it, then got shot by a sniper...damn.

Retry, this time come around on the road to Chapoi from the west.  Crept up on the fuel station and planted my satchels around a T-80, then realized that it was empty...I left the satchels there in case I needed to blow it after all.  Crawled all the way into Chapoi and snooped around...after a few minutes, a medic started running around, so I HKed him.  Two more soldiers and a black op were prone behind the tents, outside the fence...I ignored them for the time being and spotted three more blackops and a soldier inside the fence.  Eventually the three guys outside the fence started running around, so I killed them and climbed to the second story of a house and killed the black ops inside the fence.  I went back down to ground level and killed one more Russian soldier prone inside the fence and was making my way back around to the entrance to the compound, but then some a$$hole with an AK74 put a bullet in my head.  Why is it always some no-talent conscript who find me and kills me after a great feat of infiltration, after I kill like 4 commandos?

The town was littered with bodies and wrecks...infantry of all types, a Vulcan, a Bradley, an Abrams, and a couple of others, plus the Hind wreck.  At most there were a dozen men left alive in town.  The weather had been clear and fogless prior, but shortly after entering the town the rain and fog came again.  It's about 2300 hours ingame.

Hmmmm....I plan on the same approach next time, but perhaps I'll steal that T-80 if it's operable.  There appears to be a healthy Abrams in the town, so this may or may not work  Maybe I'll crawl in, satchel the Abrams, and then return to the tank and charge into town after I've blown it up.

**EDIT**

Almost forgot to mention that I have seen no streetlights.

@macguba:  where the hell did you get that M21??  One of the ammo trucks?  I've looked all over for it but then again all the support trucks in 3 have been destroyed.

[macguba]

@SEAL84
The M21 came from the ammo truck in 3.    I've not found any ammo or snipers knocking around.  There should be at least some.  I haven't actually covered that much ground so maybe I just haven't found it yet.

@THobson
I went back to shortly after sniping the M2 gunner at the airfield, so after starting the war.   In terms of what happened first time round it wasn't too far at, but second time round its been much harder.

I think I was probably slightly unlucky with the guard groups, and the location of my naughtyness - Saint Louis, right outside the airfield, probably didn't help.     It wasn't spread out in time at all:  as soon as the first squad was destroyed I had to line up for the second - there wasn't even time to run 50 yards and plant a mine.   By legging it immediately we just got to a position in the bushes about 200m up the road from the village.    As we arrive there the armour arrived in the village and a squad of 5 gets to 50-100m to the northeast.     We then moved immediatly - sometimes the Bradley stung us, sometimes it didn't and after several attempts discovered the only direction that was safe was NW.    There was a squad somewhere to the west and one or two to the north/northeast.   As soon as any of them spotted us the Brad started boiling the ground at our feet.    I suspect there was also a Vulcan to the south of the village but not sure.

I didn't quite get lag in the approach to and exit from the Saint Louis area, but I did have to turn the graphics down to minumum and the landscape was redrawing itself a bit.    

But as I say, my computer is a law unto itself at the moment.     It's interesting that a new motherboard, CPU and power unit haven't solved its problem.    Nor, it would appear, have they changed the benchmark.

The pic was nothing to do with me:  it's a battle which occurs north of 3 every time I've gone back to that save.  I've never seen it directly, its over the skyline, but the result is always several spires of rather attractive black smoke.