Less death more wounds, solution is here

[penguinman]

hello all,
I know there has been a lot of questions about how there is to much death and not alot of realistic wounds.
i will cut to the chase though.

i was watching tv and i got an idea,

if sombody could make a script that detects if somboy is hit and STILL ALIVE. then if they are alive use
this switchMove"CombatDying" on them so that they will be alive but still imoble and lying down. then make some random sidechat choice of "MEDIC!!" or "Im Hit!" or whatever.
when they are hit the nearest team medic imediatly sprints over to them and heals them. and the this switchmove"CombatDying" loop is removed. along with there wound. also if there is not a med then the person will be stuck in the animation for the entire mission. or untill they are killed.


I just need sombody to make this script, and add yet another layer of realisticity(im not sure if thats a word)
to ofp.
thanks,
also check the post on stabo lift

[dmakatra]

http://www.ofpec.com/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=17158

It's already being worked on. And what a beautiful thing once it's done.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[penguinman]

well
yes thats y i made this it seems u were stuck, that was posted so long ago and i found how to make that.

face it dmakatra, by the time you get screaming and moaning animations, sounds and all, ofp2 will be out. my idea can be used while you are working out the other one because it is simple to make.  
I dont think youl ever get that idea working, thats y i made this post        

[dmakatra]

It's not me doing it, it's the Nightstalker mod team. They'll get it done.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:

[Kammak]

Well, the scripting you describe is very simple.  I believe the reason no one is making it is because its not needed/wanted.

The "dead" in OFP are the ones that need the work on...they represent both truly dead and the severely incapacitated.  The only thing that would add more "realism" to OFP in this regard would be to randomly spawn a severely wounded guy whenever someone dies, that is immobile, but can't be healed.

You would then have a few non-corpses replacing dead bodies, which can't fight, can't be healed, but are still alive.

In the meantime, everyone else is actually fighting / working on the mission.  

There is a script in the editor's depot (which I haven't tried) which will have AI guys collect dead bodies...you could  modify that script to also pick up these newly created "alive but worthless" units....

Still, OFP's only strength is infantry combat...it just doesn't provide the tools to scripters for a well-done medic/corpsman based simulation.

[DBR_ONIX]

Acctualy the reason nothing like this had been done is the ammount of animations that would need to be made..
gtg
 - Ben

[Pathy]

Onix is right Kammak, the reason we stalled was not because of the script, it was because precisely 0 animators were interested in helping us.

If we had animators, it would have been simple. Penguin, it can and does work, but without anyone being interested, its died. Plus our scripter was a lazy git who was all mouth and no action. AFAIK hes quit OFP.

It's not me doing it, it's the Nightstalker mod team. They'll get it done

I feel like a right bastard to let you down, but no, we wont. Me and Fugy were the only ones working, so we've taken our US SF pack and left. We are now working as a 2 man addon team to make our US SF units. Ie, nightstalker no longer exists.

I'm happier working with just Fugy actually. To us, this is more sensible than a mod.

[Kammak]

The lack of animations may be why your idea is dead, but not PenguinMans.  As he pointed out, his idea doesn't need custom animations.  The scripting he described is very simple and is a solution that is completely script based.

However, there just is not a lot of interest, and there are not the right set of tools to do it well.  (Hit model, damage adjustment, granular control over heal effects, etc...)

[Pathy]

1) I know, don't put words in my mouth  

2) I disagree. With clever scripting, the tools are all there. Sure they arnt perfect, but there are lots of ways to work around it.

[Kammak]

RE: don't put words in my mouth



What are you talking about?


The reason no one has made it is because of lack of interest.  You yourself are proof - you couldn't get any animators to work on your gore script...lack of interest.

BTW - I was never talking about your thing in the first place, but PenguinMans.  His idea does not require animators.  Its just script.  So his idea is not stalled because of lack of animators, as DBR_ONIX tried to insinuate.

I've got the solution I proposed above already written in my head...its very simple.  Its also pointless.  You are just replacing corpses with alive-but-useless models.

There is not a detailed hit model in OFP to make any sort of medic/corpsman based mission worthwhile...there is no work-around for the lack of of granular damage model...its just not there.

Its analogous to the armor problems in OFP - the armor model is horrible, and there is very little that scripting can do to solve it.  Its an ablative model, and the tools to do it right (from scripting) are just not present.  The Hit/Dammage EHs are too flaky for fine control, don't fire at all for some damage levels, and there is no way to abort an event from within an event handler.  So you can't have an EH roll-back the event based on conditional logic.

The disconnect from model to in-game object and scripting access is too great - while some components are in place, the necessary parts just can't "talk" to each other at the scripting level.

This applies equally well to any medical based issues, where you are again dealing with fine hit location, penetration values, and the ability to roll-back damage already incurred before it has effect in the game.

"You just can't get there from here" with OFP.  Unless someone has inline code access, the best you can get is make-believe, "roll-the-dice", add a bunch of screams and throw lots of blood around.

 

[Pathy]

We got it fine tuned enough to detect specific limbs...right leg, left leg, right arm, left arm, torso, and head. The rest would have been more down to "rolling the dice" as you put it, to determine exactly what type of wound was caused.

But we also mixed in the ammount of damage into it....so a shot to the leg that caused little damage would have most likely come out as a flesh wound, but a shot that caused alot of damage would most likely be interpreted as a burst artery.

Compared to the current "your either alive or dead" and virtually no inbetween system, much better.

Am i right in thinking you were anti a wound system in the thread about the system we were making? thats why you refer to it as a "gore script" if i also remember correctly you systematically ignored every effort from several different people to describe just how it added alot of aspects to the game....

......things like having to attend to the wounded, having to prioritise casualties, having to choose the correct course of medic action, would have absolutely been possible and absolutely enhanced the medic side of the game.

BTW, under our system, the really stupid "you can be one moment from death, but a medic can instantly heal you back to perfect health" would have disappeared. Instead, casulties either were stabilised (ie thier health didnt change), slowed down (ie, they now had hours to live rather than minutes), or...if you got a procedure wrong (procedures have random chance of failing based on the difficulty and skill of the medic), the casulty would probably die even quicker......

If we had the animators, it would have worked alot better than the current OFP system, even with having to "roll dice" for some parts of it....

Anyway this is all irrelevant. That system wont be done, i've lost contact with our scripter anyway for about the last month (since i closed my mod and started working as an addon team instead).

So penguinman has my total blessing. Go for it mate, yours is the nearest we will get before OFP2 to some sort of realistic wound system.....

[penguinman]

people stop arguing over it, it is simple,

If you know how to script continue reading, if you dont do whatever you want.

Go back to the top post, the first post, my post, whatever.

just take 5-10mins, follow my instructions from my first post, test it for your self, put the script in your favorite mission then play it. if its really neat great: then put it in beta test forums then submit it to ofpec. if it dosent work, post your problem here.
if it works but is not so great, keep reading.

if it works but is not so great

simple way to make it good:
tell me if its not good by posting those words HERE.
I will then have a good "chat" :gunman: with my "buddys" in the unified animation mod.
then after much "persuasion"  :beat:     they will agree to help me with my problem.
they will give me a nice wounded animation which u will insert in the loop, in place of deathback.

[Kammak]

Try this out PenguinMan.  It is as close to your first as I could get, given my "limited" motivation for this concept.  

Zip includes 3 scripts, a demo mission, and a readme.

[Kammak]

No, I'm not anti-wound script.  I'm simply against childish gore effects being added for eye-candy.

I also know the OFP system, and know that while the *description* of any advanced wound system sounds great, the actual implementation will be poor - not necessarily due to the skill of the creators (whoever they may be), but because of the limits of OFP scripting.  

At the end of the day, you are still left with the fact that OFP defines life as a simple number from 0 to 1.  Everything done is still reduced to moving a real closer to 0 or closer 1.  Scripting can't change that.  Likewise, you can't immobilize a limb through script, detect if a guy has ten shrapnel wounds or a .50BMG hit that tore his arm off.

Things like Tacticians bleed-out scripts are great, but useless until they apply to everyone in the mission, not just players.  I'm all for that.

But throwing the dice when someone gets shot, and "deciding" he got a throat hit and throwing tons of blood around along with gurgling screams...no.  That's just immature and inappropriate.  So yes, I would be against that type of mod.  Whether *your* mod idea was like that or not is irrevelent.  You say it wouldn't have been - fine.  I don't really care.  My initial replies were to Penguinman and HIS suggested script, until you forced the discussion to be about your mod idea.

I'm curious what the reaction will be to the simple demo I made.  I think its quite useless, but to each his own.  

[penguinman]

first off, my idea dosent add any gore, it keeps men from sprinting at full speed with a bullet hole in there chest.
2nd: you need to realise that this is a war simulator, not some shoot'em up medal of honer, mow down 50 guys with twin bazookas while running top speed game. OFP is the best! have u ever played medal of honer, it displays your score/ ratings...ect I played the first level of moh allied assault, i believe it was d-day. when they displayed my stats at the end of that level I think i was hit like 1,200 times. it was so horrible, after seeing that stat, i stoped playing imediatly. Then i got OFP, my dream come true. If you cant aprieciate realistic warfare, maby you should join the army.  
im not trying to be agressive but thats the way it is.

anyways thanks for the script.

but i cant help but assume that you like those shoot'em up moh type games
again, join the army
thanks