Waypoint/unit placement radius

[THobson]

I am currently very careful about using this but I have seen other missions that are not, so I am just checking to see if I am being too careful.

I once used a waypoint for a ural that had a wide placement radius,  the mission didn't work too well when the truck kept trying to drive through a tree.  Since then I have always made sure there are no obstacles in the placement radius.  Is this unnecessarily cautious?  What if it were randomly placed in the middle of building for example?

The same comment applies to the placement radius used for unit placement.

This is not urgent - but I am curious as to others' experience.

[h-]

Well, the OFP AI tends to be such an idiot that it tries to drive through trees...
Or, in the other extreme, it tries to avoid hitting even the smallest weeds of grass...

Probably nothing to do with the placement radius.
The 'placement radiused' WP works exactly the same way as a normal WP, it doesn't force the AI to travel a straight line, the AI should avoid the obstacles it has been meant to avoid...

The unit placement radius should of course be used with a thought, so that for example there's no deep water inside the placement radius...
If there's a building withing the palcement radius, it should be an enterable one, otherwise it would have some not-so-welcome effects...
When the unit happens to be at the building, it usually starts from somewhere inside the bulding...

[Dubieman]

I always thought that a waypoint radius meant that the waypoint was completed or satisfied (if a hold WP) when the unit entered the radius. I could be wrong though and I have never really used the waypoint radius....

Unit placement radius I never really fool around with either cause most of my units already have set waypoints and I might as well have them in the same place.

However as the player, you cannot go through buildings except for enterable ones. I've seen AI pass through many solid none enterable buildings like it wasn't even there but I don't know if they can fire from inside but I suspect that's a no.

[macguba]

GRK, you are 100% wrong on this one.   ;D    The radius you are talking about does indeed exist, and it is different for different types of unit (infantry, chopper) but it doesn't really have a recognised name and is definitely not what we are talking about.

AI are not supposed to be able to go through/see through solid walls and unenterable buildings but at the margin they can.  This is one of the constraints of OFP and it is why it is impossible, for example, to create a really good urban combat mission.    The AI can sometimes shoot through walls and you can't, it's that simple.

Now, turning to the problem in hand, my belief is that the game does have something in it to help prevent bad problems with placement radii.   However it is not infallibale and manifestly doesn't cover the water problem.     The best solution is extensive playtesting.

In this particular example (Ural can't get through tree) its not really a placement radius question at all.    The Ural probably could have got to the waypoint without driving through the tree, but AI drivers are notoriously poor.    This is fundamentally a driving question, not a waypoint placement radius question.      There are many secrets to improving AI driving but one of the less obvious is to have no objects (tents etc) close to the side of the road.    A tent too close to the road may (not usually, but sometimes) cause havoc to AI driving half a mile away.

[Dubieman]

GRK, you are 100% wrong on this one.  

Very encouraging.  ;D

I've seen AI go through buidlings sometimes, not all the time. And I'm pretty sure they can't fire through cause I've been placed inside a unenterable building before. You run and run and go no where. When you shoot, its like putting a brick right in front of the muzzle of the gun...

Best to put AI drivers on careless or safe mode and keep the roadways clean.

I still dunno what a waypoint radius does though.  

[macguba]

A waypoint radius means that the waypoint will appear at a random point within the radius.

Create a WP in the editor and give it a radius.    You will see the circle on the map.    Every time you play the mission will be within the radius, but every time it will be at a different place.

Similarly for unit radius.

Most of the time AI can't see or move through walls.   It's just sometimes that it doesn't work properly and they can see/shoot through walls.

[Dubieman]

Sounds useful...

It's just sometimes that it doesn't work properly and they can see/shoot through walls.

Like the time I got a shotgun blast in my head from the wall...

[Roni]

Just passing and thought that I'd add my 2 cents . . .

I actually like playing with a decent placement radius for the player - it adds even more variety to the mission start.  Thanks mac for the clarification on placement radii (sp?) for waypoints - I had been thinking with GRK on that one.  

One fix that I have for the starting underwater problem is to run a little script for the unit at game start - if it's height is less then zero then it must be under water so the script resets the unit's position and checks again.  It keeps doing this until the unit is above water.

Hope that this helps.

[THobson]

Thanks everyone.

So I will continue to avoid including trees and buildings in the waypoint placement radius.  A pity.

[Roni]

So I will continue to avoid including trees and buildings in the waypoint placement radius.  

I don't bother.  I have a mission in which the player's placement radius is around 2000m - I haven't had any problems but if I did I'd just start again.  A small price for such flexibility !

Cheers


Roni

[THobson]

I think with a unit placement radius I would just avoid having any buildings within the circle.  With waypoints I will still avoid having trees in the placement radius.  As I said above I have had a problem in the past when a ural got stuck trying to drive through a tree, I presume because the waypoint had been randomly placed in or just the other side of the tree.  It looked ridiculous and ruined the mission.

[Roni]

Okay - you got me there.  Let me rephrase my last answer.  

If I play as a foot soldier then I don't care about placement radius.  If I end up starting in a "block" type building then I bounce out and if I start in an "enterable" building then I just walk out.

Vehicles OTOH . . .

As far as I can tell they still bounce out of "block" buildings but they get stuck in enterable ones.  There's nothing sadder then seeing a BMP bouncing around in the someone's living room endlessly trying to get out !



Roni