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Milwot

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A Basic Physics question
« on: 22 Aug 2003, 05:33:26 »
Does anyone know about how long it would take for an object (In this case, oh say, a 2000 lb laser guided bomb ;D) to fall from 50,000 feet before hitting the ground?

deaddog

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #1 on: 22 Aug 2003, 05:57:12 »
55.9 seconds, if you neglect air resistance  ;D

Offline macguba

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #2 on: 22 Aug 2003, 11:41:55 »
Hmmm, I got 55.3s ... but then I was not only ignoring air resistance but assuming that the acceleration due to gravity is constant, which if course it isn't.    I also ignored the forward velocity of the bomb imparted to it by the plane, which, from this kind of height, probably brings the curvature of the Earth into play.


Anyway, for the quick, dirty and simple answer the relevant equation is

s=ut+1/2(at^2)

s=distance
u=initial velocity
v=final velocity
t=time
a=acceration

In this case the only acceleration is due to gravity, which is 9.81m/s/s.    u is obviously 0.

Other handy equations for this sort of problem are

v=u+at

v^2=u^2+2as

The air resistance is probably proportional to either speed or speed squared, but I can't remember which is more appropriate in a case like this.    

This simplified solution gives you a value for v of 542m/s, which is too high for a bomb in random orientation but is probably believable if it was flying like a missile.      At sea level sound travels at about 330m/s.

If you are ignoring air resistance then of course it doesn't matter what the object is, as long as it's mass is trivial compared with the mass of the Earth.
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Unnamed

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #3 on: 22 Aug 2003, 12:27:32 »
This would take air friction into account:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mechanics/quadrag.html#c1

But I guess you just want it for something simple?
« Last Edit: 22 Aug 2003, 12:30:15 by Unnamed »

deaddog

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #4 on: 22 Aug 2003, 15:14:58 »
Hey Macguba,

Quote
acceleration due to gravity is constant, which if course it isn't.
It is a constant, at the earth's surface.  It actually decreases with altitude (makes sense, gravity gets weaker the higher you go).  So that would actually make the bomb take longer to fall (ignoring everything else).

I think the difference is probably in the units conversion.  BTW, I used 32 ft/s/s for g.

I had to dig the old physics book out for this one  ;D  That class was so long ago I thought they might have changed the laws of nature since then. :)

Milwot

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #5 on: 22 Aug 2003, 17:26:45 »
Yeah, I only need the approximate time, and my physics stuff is buried somewhere. Thanks

Offline macguba

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #6 on: 22 Aug 2003, 19:15:34 »
Hey Macguba,It is a constant, at the earth's surface.  It actually decreases with altitude (makes sense, gravity gets weaker the higher you go).  So that would actually make the bomb take longer to fall (ignoring everything else).

I think the difference is probably in the units conversion.  BTW, I used 32 ft/s/s for g.

Yes, that's what I meant about gravity not being constant.    And I converted 50,000 feet into metres, since that's how I was brought up, so you're right, it'll be some rounding error somewhere.
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Offline Doolittle

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #7 on: 22 Aug 2003, 19:45:05 »
Don't forget, this isn't the real world.  The best way to figure it out is to just drop it & have a script that counts the time until it dies.  I wonder how close it will be to your calculated time?

Doolittle

VisciousDog

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #8 on: 22 Aug 2003, 20:18:03 »
Do not forget the Weight of the bomb (Newtons or Kg). I do not see it in the equation. Also the bomb is falling in an angle, and not straight down. For example: 280, 290 degrees (More than 270 degrees), depending on the speed of the aircraft. So, that means the Bomb has a velocity already with the aircraft, along with freefall taken from gravity.

 "2000lbs"
Looking into this as well.
« Last Edit: 22 Aug 2003, 21:26:42 by VisciousDog »

Offline macguba

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #9 on: 22 Aug 2003, 21:57:37 »
The mass of the bomb is entirely irrelevant, providing it is small compared with the mass of the Earth.     Why?     Because the gravitational pull of the Earth attracts all objects equally.

This result was established experimentally by Galileo in about ..... 1590?   Reputedly in Pisa.   He put a cannon ball and a feather in a vertical evacuated tube and dropped them.    They hit the ground at the same time.

If you are going to take account of air resistance, then the shape of the bomb is extremely important.    It's internal structure  is also vital, because it will affect the manner in which it falls.    For example, imagine two bombs of identical mass and shape, but one has it's centre of mass near the tail and one has it's centre of mass near the middle.    They will tumble in different ways, and consequently arrive at the surface of the Earth at different times.

The velocity of the aircraft will have a significant impact on where the bomb falls, but it will not in principle affect how long the fall takes.   All we have discussed is the vertical component of the bomb's velocity:   how long does it take to travel the vertical distance between the aircraft and the ground?      Obviously the horizontal velocity may, in particular circumstances, have an effect on that:   if the plane flies faster or slower the bomb may hit or miss the top of a mountain for example, but in general it is not relevant.

Think about it like this.       A plane flying at 500 knots 5,000 feet drops a bomb.     A chopper hovering at 5,000 simultaneously drops an identical bomb.    Which hits the ground first?

Answer:  they hit the ground at the same time.

And in case you were wondering, yes I do have a Physics degree.    

To learn about the difference between mass (correctly measured in kilograms, pounds, etc.) and weight (correctly measured in newtons) try this link.    The mass of the bomb does not change during it's drop:  however, it's weight does.     As deaddog mentioned, the force of gravity is less at 50,000 feet above the surface of the Earth is less than it is at sea level, so the weight of the bomb will be less.    Fortunatly, since weight is irrelvant to our calculation, that doesn't matter.  ;D

Doolittle - if you test this (which is a fine idea) the actual time will be more than the 55 seconds odd mentioned above, because we have ignored lots of factors.   In practice this time is a lower limit:  the actual time will be more.     Given that I have a vague recollection that some bombs do go supersonic during their fall, I suspect the true answer will not be all that higher:  I would guess perhaps 70 or 80 seconds, something like that.
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mikeb

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #10 on: 22 Aug 2003, 23:38:37 »
WOW!!!!

OFP turns into GCSE physics lesson.  all getting way too serious now.  no offence intended to anyone though.

Doolittle's right - this isn't the real world.

I've noticed that things do seem to fall slower in OFP so the best idea is not to work out the precise scientific answer for it but just to use a script to time it.


Offline Sui

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Re:A Basic Physics question
« Reply #11 on: 23 Aug 2003, 03:44:39 »
If you want to get this realistic, it may be a good thing to know that Laser Guided Munitions are never dropped from 50,000 ft.

This is because the laser can only be reliably picked up below about 10,000ft, and the bomb moves around a hell of a lot in the 40,000 ft. it would take to get there (therefore negating the accuracy required of a Precision Guided Munition ;))

Also, there are a few good physics topics in the official forums... check out CoC and there work on unified artillery...