(Review Completed) [SP] Un-Impossible Mission

[macguba]

Some people do get slightly nervous about folk poking around other people's missions.   My view is that it should be STRONGLY encouraged - it's a very good way to learn ... either how to do things, or not do things, as the case may be.    I am merely flattered if anybody chooses to unpbo any of my missions, and all I ask is that if you blatently nick something (which is totally fine) you mention the source in your readme.   The only possible bad consequence is deliberate plagiarism, (which is a genuine problem in the addon making community, but not usually in the mission making community) and as long as you avoid that then IMHO only good can come of it.     Any comments (or questions) anybody makes having studied my missions are extemely welcome.

To answer your questions:

1)  I can't remember but you can easily build a wee test missionette to check

2) No.   It is displaced by one.   setWPPos regards the original position of the unit as 0 and the first placed waypoint as 1.    This is a typical example of OFP code confusion:  the waypoint numbered 0 in the actual waypoint GUI is in fact waypoint 1 according to setWPPos.

I think I've got all mine right but it is the sort of thing that can very easily go wrong, so if you think I have made a mistake please point it out.

I have done a fair bit to make the capturing that Abrams more difficult:-    

- change waypoint position to take it away from the Base (where it is so useful)

- fix bug so that the dismounts can actually dismount from the Bradley

- increase Bradley prob from 76% to 100% (reducing
seperate infantry group prob at that start position from 75% to 50% to offset this)

- increase probs of Bradley dismounts

- add variable condition to move waypoint to prevent Abrams group from being sucked into the Base early on

- whole new sequence of waypoints and switch triggers to prevent Abrams from being stationery in danger zone when it is not aware of nearby enemy

- new loitering position for Abrams which would be quite hard to find during the mission.    For example waypoints are placed to make it hard to follow the tank by means of flattened bushes/trees, and the route has been selected to make it hard to keep up with the track marks on foot.  (They fade with time)

- second chopper now hovers out to sea for at least an hour, so with a bit of luck - if you do capture the Abrams - it will just zoom in and zap you

- and as you have discovered, the real punishment for capturing the tank is that the mission then becomes less fun


I don't care if you capture one of the tanks in the heavy armour group, that can only (realistically) happen so near the end of the mission that it doesn't really matter.

(There are three armoured groups, which I refer to as light, medium and heavy.   They are, respectively:  all Bradleys; one Bradley+one Abrams; and up to two of each.)  

I greatly value the opinion of good beta testers, and, being probably the most experienced beta tester myself I can safely say that beta testers are usually right.   Consequently, although I have no qualms whatsoever about ignoring/disagreeing with the opinions or comments of beta testers, I take all of them extremely seriously and my default position is to accept their suggestions.

If this was a normal mission I'd probably try and give the player 30 seconds before the first attack came in.    This start is harsh, but then it is supposed to be.   And I love the idea of a player trying it three or four times and dying within 10 seconds each time and saying "this mission is a piece of shit", because it isn't:   you can survive with fewer than 3 casualties 3 times out of 4 once you know what you are doing.     And the thing to remember about all these tests I'm doing is that I'm not a particularly strong player, even though I do know the ins and outs.  

I've decided against any setDir thing:  the player's group will start clean, in the default configuration.    I did look at toady's watch script when it came out, but it is the sort of thing I'm trying to avoid in this mission and in any case, my job is to make it more difficult, not easier.  Plus there probably isn't time for it to work anyway:  you don't often get more than 5-6 seconds before the shooting starts.


All feedback is welcome so by all means get your son to post his comments.   (Assuming you have told him the internet exists.)    

[THobson]

As I said earlier - amazing attention to detail.  I saw the new loitering position for the medium armour group.  I had not realised you chose it to avoid flattened bushes!  Good one.

I realise now how I got the Bradley in that group. It was pure luck, but I could not have done it more accurately if I had known what I was doing.  I got into a fire fight just NW of the Old Base - this must have attracted the medium group.  We then passed each other in the fog as I went west and it went east - one of my guys did report seeing it but I didn't.  When I got to the ammo dump I scattered some mines around in what turned out to be in or close to the medium group's loitering position.  Now if only it had taken the Abrams as well I would not have been able to capture it.

My first question about the behaviour of a unit that has been switched to a Guard waypoint, but before it gets there is something I will write a little missionette to check, but my reason for asking the question was less to get the answer and more to prompt you to consider whether the behaviour of the medium group is one that you want.  Scenario:  firefight in the south, medium group attends, sees nothing and starts to return.  Does the group have to get home before it comes back, or will it return as soon as there is more action, even before it gets home?  Actually I can understand if you don't care about the answer - one is certainly more realistic than the other but the other just adds to the uncertainty.  I will still write the missionette though.

A thought on how the difficulty can be increased without cheating.  Currently when the infantry dismounts from their Bradley they go to S&D at the location of the Bradley.  It would not be cheating, and from the player's point of view would look more realistic, if the location of the S&D waypoint was where one of east units had been detected (something like KnownLoonPos getPos _thislist select 0 in the trigger, then use KnownLoonPos to move the WP))

My son certainly knows about the internet.  He is currently in the final year of a 4 year degree course in computing.  I am not sure why he is not posting himself, maybe he is embarrassed by his dad being here.  (Actually I think he was a bit embarrased for my sake by some of the rather nasty comments (since fixed) in the reviews of a couple of my missions)

[macguba]

I remember the answer now:   the group doesn't have to be at the guard waypoint, once it starts going there it is on Guard.     When I was testing this new setup there was one run when it wasn't quite right, and the tank was called into action, failed to detect anybody, ran away again and 200 yards later was callled back into action, didn't detect anybody and so on.

I like that thought on the positioning of the S&D waypoint - that would be fine since the lads dismount only if the enemy is known to be there anyway.   They would just run around randomly anyway.   I might offset it slightly to confuse the player.

OFPEC reviews (and beta tests) do occasionally have comments which are unneccessarily harsh in tone, but they are usually thoughtless rather than deliberately hurtful.

I suggest you order him not to post on OFPEC under any circumstances.    That should probably do the trick.   ;D

[THobson]

Lol.  I bet you are right.

Just looking through the mission.  What happens if the player chooses to continue, there are <=11 loons left and one or more of them are in a vehicle that is stuck >600m from the flag.  I may be wrong but I think they stay stuck.

It seems (just) possible for the loons to head off up The Hill if there are as many as 34 of them.  If the player does what I kicked myself for not doing and that is litter the top with satchel charges and all 34 are wiped out in one go.  Again I may be wrong, but it looks like there could be a delay of up to about 2 minutes before the game ends.

Just tell me stop when this gets irritating.

[macguba]

Just tell me stop when this gets irritating

 ;D I've been irritated by this wretched mission for some weeks now, so you don't need to worry about that.

If all the loons are dead then _count=0:  the delays are all of the form _count*x so the delay would be 0 and you'd get straight to the end of the script.  It's true that if _count was 34 and you zapped them just after the delay started then you would have to wait a while before the mission finished, but given that it would already have taken probably 15 minutes to get them all up the hill I don't think that's a big deal.    It's all pretty unlikely anyway, and hard to fix because I'd have to interrupt the delay to recount, which is possible of course but I really don't want to have to test that script again.   It's really hard work.

I'm not sure you're right about the other point though.      If a vehicle was stuck more than 600m away then the unstick section would grab the vehicle (since it's more than 250m away) and move it.   I think.   The loons inside would then get the unassigncommands which should get them out.    Even if it doesn't, the vehicle is now in a findable place.  

The good news is that I found a couple of uncommented hints in that script, which have now been commented.   I've also put a note giving the location of object 42683, which is a tree on the east edge of the small wood to the east of the hill, where the blackops start.      

[THobson]

Well my logic ran like this.

Script starts with <= 11 loons.  
Flow goes: Wait1 -> Wait2 -> Section2 -> drive
and if the vehicle is stuck it stays stuck.

There may be other scripts doing stuff that effect it

It was just a thought.

[macguba]

There are no other scripts, but the flow is actually

Wait1 -> Wait2 -> Section2 -> setpos -> normal -> drive

At least I think it is.

I can't believe I first tried to do what this whole script does in two triggers.    No wonder we couldn't find that jeep.

[THobson]

There is no: setPos, normal or 250 in the script I have so it looks like you have it fixed in a newer version.

[macguba]

Ah, more than possible.

[THobson]

Hah yes this is a later version.  Couple of quick comments:
- I think  _time   should be time
- If section1 is missed (as it will be for <=11 loons) the only way for loons to be forced out of their vehicle is if they are <= 600m from the flag, and if they are stuck....


Edit:

Oh I see.  when it gets down to just them they are setPosd and are then < 600 m from the flag.

Neat.  But it fails if you have > 3 stuck vehicles (or one stuck vehicle with attendant loons giving a count > 3)

Edit2:
tree 42683 look like it is just over 600m from the flag, so I am back to thinking it doesn't work for loons <= 11 and a stuck vehicle > 600m from the flag (unless the setPos un-sticks them - not sure that can be relied on as we don't know what causes them to stick in the first place)

[macguba]

It doesn't really matter if its _time or time:  _time is a reserved local variable which returns the time since the script started.

It does indeed fail if there is more than 3.  However, I've only encountered one loon stuck once in many, many tests, so I'm not too worried about it.    The nature of the ground over which the mission is fought does not lend itself to loons getting stuck in any case.    Plus, he would have to be stuck outside the ring road for the player not to have a decent chance of finding him anyway.

You are correct that if section 1 is missed loons in cargo will stay there.   I have therefore amended the script so that section 1 is not missed - you now have to go through it.

I suspect - though I haven't tested - that the setPos will move the whole of a stuck vehicle.

[THobson]

I didn't know that about _time.  Interesting, thanks

Edit:
Just found it in comref:

variable _time is reserved. It is used to keep time elapsed since script execution started.

What's the icon for a red face?

Going through Section1 should deal with any number of stuck loons - well it will at least get them all out of the vehicles.

[THobson]

Just thinking about this:

second chopper now hovers out to sea for at least an hour, so with a bit of luck - if you do capture the Abrams - it will just zoom in and zap you

I didn't capture the Abrams until about midday.  I visited the civilians, dealt with the roadblock did a round trip of all the possible starting lacations scattering mines and satchel charges, took out the various units patrolling the roads and then made the ambush.  Most of that was done on my belly with very careful approach to each of the starting locations.

Are you really dead against having west's behaviour modified by east capturing one of their prize tanks?

[macguba]

I thought about the timing briefly.   The problem is that Sneaker did the mission very quickly, so there is no "correct" answer.    However I think I might move it back further.

Having the chopper behaviour altered if you have/haven't captured the Abrams is a total no-no.   That's what made making the mission so interesting.    If I want to stop you, I have to think of a good way to do it.   Having this pressure has resulted in things like that new waypoint/trigger sequence, which is far more interesting for the player anyway.      I've also made 4 groups anti-tank groups by giving them up to two LAW, one AA and two AT  loons.    They won't all be present of course, but there is at least a chance of them giving you a good whack.


Edit:  I've changed the time so its between 1.5 and 2 hours into the mission rather than 1-1.5.    Can't really leave it any later because the mission might be over:   I have captured the Abrams at the start position.    However, since the prob was only reduced as a lag reducer, and it will be out to sea, I've put it back up to 100%.


Reminder:  latest version is still 0-64.   Grab it here thanks to Artak.    One week on and Lycos/Tripod still haven't fixed my site.  I  just get standard emails which strongly suggest that my emails are not being read.

[THobson]

Well if imposing these rules on yourself leads to things like the waypoint/trigger arrangement, then I am all for them.  Stick with it.